A Solstice Holiday and an Herbalist with Sophie from Ramblings of a Grey Witch

Sophie

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[00:00:00] Ashley: to die with a divine. I'm your host, Ashley. And together we're going to be exploring the magical the mystical and everything in between. On today's episode, we're going to talk about your new favorite winter holiday and an herbalist.

[00:00:22] Yay! I hope everyone's having a great week, and if not, I hope it gets better soon. Today, we have an absolutely fabulous guest coming to us across the pond. We love an international guest. We have Sophie from the podcast, Ramblings of a Grey Witch. Sophie, how are you doing?

[00:00:38] Sophie: I'm good! I'm good.

[00:00:40] Yeah, it's 2pm in the afternoon here, so how early is it for you?

[00:00:44] Ashley: It's 9. It's 9am here. Oh my

[00:00:47] Sophie: gosh. You're better than me. Thank Because, no, that just wouldn't happen. Whenever

[00:00:53] Ashley: I have to do so I've had a few people who have been like, international, and I have to wake up a little early. I get [00:01:00] anxiety the night before, I'm not gonna wake up.

[00:01:02] Yeah.

[00:01:04] Sophie: Oh I'm terrible with waking up in the morning. I sleep through all my alarms. It's a running joke between me and my husband. Because, he's you are... Unconscious. And because he's trying to wake me up, I end up sleep talking to him. I am just, I am in another realm. I'm just not there anymore.

[00:01:21] Yeah, waking up is not my strong suit.

[00:01:24] Ashley: Same. I know, I can have, my fiancé will say, I'll be like, asleep. And I can have a perfectly, totally normal conversation with him. I'll wake up and not remember the conversation we had at all.

[00:01:40] Sophie: Yeah, it's it's crazy, isn't it? When you think about it, we just go unconscious for eight or more hours.

[00:01:45] And that's just normal.

[00:01:48] Ashley: Oh my God, I was thinking this exact thought the other day. I was like, can you imagine if you met like an alien and you were explaining like sleep to them? And they're like, so what do you guys do? We're like, oh, we just lay, we have a [00:02:00] special room. Where we go in and we just go unconscious for however long you can usually they recommend eight hours that you're just unconscious.

[00:02:09] They'd be like, you have a whole room to just be unconscious for eight hours. Yeah,

[00:02:14] Sophie: we do. And

[00:02:17] Ashley: we have a special kind of. We, I don't even know how you would describe it to an alien we have a special kind of surface, it's usually different people like a different, it might be like, a little soft or hard, special surfaces that we buy, they're very expensive, and,

[00:02:33] Sophie: they are expensive aren't they, what's that about, like, why are

[00:02:37] Ashley: they so expensive, why is it like a thousand dollars, like the last time I bought a mattress was years ago when I moved into my house, and It's and it was like a cheap mattress.

[00:02:45] It was a king size mattress. It's like a, like at least more than a thousand dollars and I'm like, this is... Do you know... Why?

[00:02:51] Sophie: eBay. eBay shops. We got a whole king size bed with a mattress for just a couple of hundred. I think we paid about three hundred for all of it, which [00:03:00] is such a bargain. I don't know why beds are so expensive.

[00:03:02] I really don't.

[00:03:04] Ashley: I don't know either. And then you have to have a frame for your bed, and you have to have pillows. And I'm not sensitive. Like, why? It's so stupid! Why am I going to the store, and I'm like, I go to you guys, I don't know if you guys have Target, but it's like, We don't, but we have SimRider.

[00:03:23] Upgraded. Yeah.

[00:03:25] Sophie: I really want Target. It's looks

[00:03:26] Ashley: so great. Target's great. Yeah. Yeah, I was yeah

[00:03:34] Sophie: These are all the things that I've heard of that Oh, we're sure we have some sort of equivalent But I just want to come to the States to shop

[00:03:41] Ashley: in these places Oh my god but like I feel like the UK and I feel like a lot of people in the US like We fantasize and make the UK this thing that like but you guys I feel like you have like more independent bookstores Yeah, we probably do.

[00:03:56] Yeah. Yeah here we have Barnes Noble is great, but We [00:04:00] have,

[00:04:00] Sophie: I think what the equivalent to Barnes Noble would be in the UK would be Waterstones. I don't know if you've heard of it. Oh, no. That's the big book chain. Oh, okay. But I like to shop in a place called The Works. Because they, it's, it is a bookshop, but they also do arts and crafts and they do some toys for kids.

[00:04:17] Oh! But everything's discounted. So Waterstones is... It would sell at the author's price, whereas the works you'll pick up books for three or four pound or dollars, of course, for you. So yeah, I absolutely love the works. Oh, that sounds like fun! I wish we

[00:04:37] Ashley: had, I don't know if, I don't think we have it we might have it in another state, but not in my state, but... Where

[00:04:43] Sophie: are you? If you don't mind me

[00:04:44] Ashley: asking, I might have to ask you this. Oh yeah! No, it's fine. I'm in New Jersey, so I'm on the East Coast. Oh, cool. But I'm like, I live like an hour from New York City.

[00:04:52] Yeah. Yeah, like an hour south and an hour from, hour east from Philadelphia. Yeah. No, don't worry. And three [00:05:00] hours north of Washington, D. C., see where it all happens? I'm in the middle, baby. I was gonna say

[00:05:07] Sophie: I'm not that's like me.

[00:05:08] I'm Birmingham. Literally in the Midlands. Perfectly in the middle of England.

[00:05:15] Ashley: I love it. I love it. I like Birmingham. I'm trying to think who's from Birmingham that I Oh yeah,

[00:05:21] Sophie: you said that

[00:05:21] Ashley: you might have some family in the area. Oh, my uncle lives in Birmingham. That's who lives there. My uncle.

[00:05:25] Oh my gosh. Yeah. That's a small world. It is, alright? I know. I love it. Okay, now that we've talked about books and bedding and where everybody lives,

[00:05:38] I love it. I'll have a good rant. Sorry, guys.

[00:05:41] Sophie: We should start a thing. Write in and tell us how much you paid for your bed.

[00:05:45] Ashley: Please! We would love to know how much your bed sheets cost. I know, the last time I bought bed sheets, I think they were on... On sale, and it was still like 40, and I was like, this is not that big of a sale, but [00:06:00] I guess I'm buying these because all the rest of my bed sheets were messed up, so it's fine.

[00:06:04] I have got, actually,

[00:06:07] Sophie: on to say, but then we will get on to the witchy stuff, I promise.

[00:06:10] Ashley: That's fine!

[00:06:12] Sophie: Is it true that in the States, for your covers, your quilt, duvet, I don't know what you guys call it, but yours is all one piece? And the whole lot goes in the wash. Is that right? Cause we have a duvet, and then we buy covers for it, and we wash the covers.

[00:06:29] Ashley: Oh. So that's even more expensive. Oh yeah, no, ours is all one piece.

[00:06:35] Sophie: See, we don't have that. We've got even more components to the bed.

[00:06:39] Ashley: More components. Because you're British and they want to be fancy. They're like, we've got to make this more... We've got to make this more complicated. So it looks more fancy.

[00:06:51] Sophie: It's a nightmare.

[00:06:55] Ashley: It is. I love that. I don't even, okay, this is so embarrassing. But I [00:07:00] barely understand what a duvet is. I just have a quilt. Yeah,

[00:07:04] Sophie: what A quilt?

[00:07:06] Ashley: No, we, there are duvets. I just don't know the difference. I don't know if it's a different thing. Cause people always talk about their duvet cover.

[00:07:15] And I don't know what they mean. I just, yeah, I just have a quilt on my bed. So do you guys use

[00:07:19] Sophie: pillowcases? Oh yeah! So a duvet is like the insert of a pi Oh. So yeah, this is my understanding anyway. So it's the, it's a quilt that you then put a cover on. Like you would put the case on a pillow.

[00:07:36] The duvets, the insert. I think that's that. I'm 28 and that's what I've always thought,

[00:07:41] Ashley: you're probably right. I'm just like, I just don't know. I'm just like, I don't, I feel like I just always had a quilt and then I, because people use duvets and say the word here all the time, I just never understand what's going on when people say it.

[00:07:54] But, you just gotta nod and agree. Yeah. Yeah, I know. I know all about that. [00:08:00] That's why, yeah. Oh, 100%. I just lied. I'm like, yeah, my duvet cover? Yeah, I wash it every month or whatever. I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. Oh, God, I just don't want to be embarrassed. Sophie how, okay, I always ask people, like, how did you get started on your Spiritual witchy journey.

[00:08:21] Sophie: Brilliant, brilliant question. So for me, what I refer to, I use the phrase committed witch. Okay. So hopefully you'll see what I mean in a minute. So when I now look back over my life, I've always had my witchy ways, but I only started referring to myself as a witch and being, this is what I call being a committed witch as in.

[00:08:47] Yes, I'm a witch, it doesn't have to mean that you practice all the time as I'm sure you agree like we don't have Life is busy. We don't all have time to do our rituals religiously every month some people do and absolutely hats off to you [00:09:00] For me as I think it started for a lot of people about three years ago.

[00:09:05] It was around lockdown We were in a pretty desperate financial situation. And I was at a point where, because this is another thing, I, pre, previously to that, if ever I was in a heightened state of emotion or if there was, if I was ever in a situation where I felt like there were no physical options, I would turn to, I would start researching spiritual.

[00:09:30] Spiritual things. So this same sort of thing happened to me about three years ago where we, like I say, we were in a difficult financial situation and one of those situations where you feel like I don't have any options here, like there's no way out. And as I said, whenever I'm in that sort of state or this is prior to this moment three years ago, I would look up spiritual remedies.

[00:09:53] So I started doing that. And. I don't want to go too much into detail about [00:10:00] exactly what I did or what happened because obviously it's very personal but it's mostly because it's not just me I'm talking about I then end up talking about family so I'm just going to redact that slightly but in short it worked and but prior to that you know I was I've had my tarot deck since I was 15 years old.

[00:10:19] I've always been into analysing dreams and interpreting dreams for readings and that sort of thing. Was about three years ago I started doing some basic money spells and then I came across a debt banishing spell. And I've never looked back, and that was when I, that's when I say I became a committed witch. But it's like I say, now that I'm three years in and I'm a lot more experienced, I do, That my podcast title being Ramblings of a Grey, which I, if you want labels I would be a great chaos witch because I will practice any magic that feels right for me. So it could be light or dark. It could be from various cultures. It could be it [00:11:00] could be anything. And if it resonates with me, I will practice it, obviously, always with respect.

[00:11:07] So yeah, so that's how I got to where I am now really and I used to have a crystal sharp as well which I don't anymore and So yeah, and now it's I've always said it feels like I can sense this crowd of people that are cheering For me that I finally I'm finally on this path it's like they've been waiting for me my whole life to to commit.

[00:11:30] Hence the term, committed witch. So yeah, so that's it really in summary. I've got to admit I am always a little bit, I don't know if embarrassed is the right word, but a bit ashamed that it had to be money spells that really catapulted me on. But it's more the fact that I was in desperation and I sought.

[00:11:50] spiritual help, and I got it,

[00:11:52] Ashley: yeah! Yeah. That's, okay, first of all, that's wonderful. Every part of your story is good. And [00:12:00] then, also, yeah, but also, I think I talked about this the other day, too, about how some people, I've heard people who'll be like, Oh, I only go to my altar, or I only call on my ancestors when I'm, like, doing a ritual, or this and that.

[00:12:15] And I was saying, I call my ancestors when I'm in a desperate situation, like not all, obviously I try to talk to them and honor them above that, not only when I'm upset, but it started to for me to like, when I was young, and I was really like, going through something or I was really upset.

[00:12:35] I would call I would just talk to God out loud. That was like what I did. Because I was upset. And it used to like, I would have Different experiences. I once I remember very vividly. I had an experience of like really just crying really bad of whatever was going on was very upset. So upset.

[00:12:53] And I remember like being covered in warmth all of a sudden. I know out of nowhere. I didn't know what happened. Yeah. [00:13:00] So things like that. And then like now in all speaking of the pandemic, I was Oh,

[00:13:10] See when it came to financial other stuff to like, I was going panic attacks. Like I was going through it. Like we, I was like, I don't know what we're going to do. Like I don't, like work situations were all messed up. Like I worked throughout the pandemic, but there's other people in my family who couldn't work.

[00:13:30] And I was just like. What are we all gonna do? Absolutely. Yeah, waking up in the middle of the night. Literally some of my hair fell out. It was terrible. Yeah, it was terrible. Beyond, yeah, beyond being also just I didn't want anyone in my family to get sick. I didn't want any of my friends to get sick.

[00:13:50] Of course. Yeah, you're already nervous about that. I went to my altar and was just like tell me what to do, cause I'm Help. Help. Do anything, [00:14:00] just help. Anything. I don't even care what you guys do at this point. I'm like Take the wheel. Con. It's a con. I can't deal with this. I'm just a human.

[00:14:08] Please. I'm like, I need assistance. It, I think that is, and people, I think there's, people will, I think there's people, and especially in, yeah. Major religions, monotheistic religions, I think people will judge others for saying oh, you only call on your creator or whatever when you get This is my pet pave Yeah, so what?

[00:14:31] Right So what? If you I'm ready for the rant Yeah

[00:14:40] It's okay if that's what brings you there. That's what brings you there. So yes,

[00:14:44] Sophie: go ahead. So right. This is my, we've got pretty deep, pretty quick, but let's go there. So I had a Catholic upbringing, I had a Catholic education and my parents weren't, Devout in terms of church every [00:15:00] Sunday, but, I did all my Catholic sacraments and, we would always go to church on Christmas and Easter and I went to church regularly through school because it was a religious school.

[00:15:10] So I have a very strong understanding of what Catholicism is and this is another thing that makes me look back and realize that I've always been a very spiritual person but this path I'd been exposed to wasn't for me. Yeah. With, no disrespect to anybody listening I try and be respectful of everybody's religions and beliefs but I am just going to share my experience and opinion on the Christian God, shall we say, and Catholicism.

[00:15:41] Because there is such a guilt complex that is instilled in everybody. Like you've just said, you asked for help, how dare you? What? What? Hang on, you think that means you're supposed to love me, right? Is[00:16:00]

[00:16:09] that the part?

[00:16:13] Ashley: Have I got this right? What on confession. I have such a problem. I've never... So I like, I went to Catholic Church when I was a kid and I also... felt very spiritual, but I, and I enjoy, I always say Catholicism is just Christian magic, but I, in a way sometimes, right? Okay. Thank you.

[00:16:38] Sophie: I recently went to, go on, sorry, I'll interrupt.

[00:16:43] Ashley: No, you tell me and then I'll go. Don't

[00:16:45] Sophie: worry. Go. Just because you said about how Catholicism is witchcraft. It's I went to a Catholic funeral at the start of this year and they are cleansing the coffin with frankincense, smoke, and, they're lighting their candles, they're anointing their [00:17:00] candles, they're reciting chants, and I'm like, this all seems very familiar.

[00:17:07] Ashley: You

[00:17:07] Sophie: know? Hypocrites.

[00:17:10] Ashley: I'm saying, no, you're right. No, it's so true when, yeah. So when I was like younger and I was like, really, I was really, I loved magic and all this spiritual stuff. Then I got to a point where I like was like, okay, maybe I should just go to church. Like maybe that I went to church as a kid, then I stopped going because I was going with my dad.

[00:17:33] Then I stopped going for a while and then I started again because I was like, maybe I should just get into this. Maybe this is what I'm supposed to do. . Then afterwards I was like, actually, no. Then the problem is, and I would say the problem is with humans. It's not really the religion that is the problem, honestly.

[00:17:48] No. It's people, it's

[00:17:51] Sophie: This is another thing over. . This is another issue I have with the Catholic teachings. , is that when you look at the Bible and when you try and take [00:18:00] it back to its core, yeah. It's not what is now taught. Does that make sense? Absolutely. Like it, this isn't an actual quote or anything at all, I don't think, but, one of my all time favorite films is Stigmata. Oh, I

[00:18:14] Ashley: love Stigmata. Do you? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:18:16] Sophie: It's good. Not many people I speak to actually know the film, so That's amazing. Yeah. But the quote in it when, 'cause obviously it's about finding the last gospel of Jesus , but the quote in it that they use, I'm sure they've just made it up for the film, but it, for me, it resonated.

[00:18:30] Split a rock and I am there, lift a piece of wood and you will find me, or the other way around. But it's basically saying that you the holiness, the spiritualism, the spirit is within and without you. It's around you everywhere. It's not in a building that some industry has made to, it's not, 9am every Sunday morning.

[00:18:52] It's, yeah. Constantly, like the divine is there for us all the time to tap into and I feel like [00:19:00] they're like gatekeeping very much so 100 percent that's how

[00:19:04] Ashley: I feel and that reminds me of and I cannot remember what it's called. But my friend who is Catholic She was telling me she started doing this like daily devotional thing where she would Like it talks about how God is everywhere and we, I was like, yes, this is what I've been talking about.

[00:19:24] And she was just saying how it's really changed her. But also what you said, the minute I started getting very weary.

[00:19:32] Because like I said, when I was a teenager, I was going to church and stuff, but I remember it actually happened in school. We had a, my history teacher, I think I was in like 11th grade or something no, I was like in 10th grade, so I was like 15. And I remember we learned, we had to read excerpts.

[00:19:48] Actually, my teachers were pretty good. We read excerpts from every major religion's religious books, and we were reading it. Fantastic, that's incredible. It was really interesting. We're reading and analyzing it and [00:20:00] talking about cultural context and what was going on for those people at that time.

[00:20:03] So we talked about Catholicism and we were talking about the Middle Ages and how they would take indulgences from people. And if anybody doesn't know what indulgences are, it was like, okay, so you know the Sistine Chapel and how beautiful it is and how there's paintings on the ceiling? So what happened was, the Catholic Church was like, Damn, we'd really to build this beautiful place.

[00:20:29] And they didn't have any money. So what they would do, now this is during the middle ages, aka the dark ages when nobody had any money. They would go around to people, to different towns, villages, these people, regular ass people, who were super religious at the time because a lot of them couldn't even read, right?

[00:20:47] So they would go around, priests, vicars, monks, and say, Hey, did you know that there's this place called Purgatory? And your loved ones are going to be stuck there. Because they weren't really great, but they weren't [00:21:00] really bad people. So in order for you to help them get out of Purgatory, You have to, your loved ones who are dead by the way, Your dead loved ones are stuck in this place.

[00:21:10] You know those people who raised you, who you loved? They're stuck in limbo for eternity unless you give us some money. Now, number one, purgatory is nowhere in the Bible. There's nowhere in the Bible that talks about this. Really?

[00:21:23] Sophie: I didn't know that.

[00:21:25] Ashley: It's not in the Bible anywhere. And they also just made it up to get money from people in the Middle Ages when nobody had any money and people couldn't read.

[00:21:35] I was thinking so... I was like, this

[00:21:37] Sophie: is so fucked up. Sounds a lot like abuse, doesn't it?

[00:21:41] Ashley: Yeah! On a continental scale, like they were literally just going throughout Europe doing this to people.

[00:21:47] Sophie: Again, the guilt complex, the blackmail, that if you don't do this, you'll be doomed for all eternity. And they had no choice but to believe it, because like you said, they weren't educated enough to think otherwise.

[00:21:57] Oh, yeah,

[00:21:58] Ashley: these people were just right. [00:22:00] Exactly. They were just regular ass people, farmers, bakers, blacksmiths who lived in the town and just not a slipping. Yeah, just doing their regular ass jobs trying to take care of their families and shit. And then you go and tell them like, Oh, you're Mom who raised you who you loved and she was amazing and you just miss her so much She's actually stuck in this terrible place and she can't go to heaven.

[00:22:20] Meanwhile. Everybody now is super religious so they're like Oh my god what we have to scrounge up all this money to get mom out of limb, but Come on oh my life. Just so they could pay somebody to paint the Sistine Chapel. This is the

[00:22:35] Sophie: other thing, oh my life. So I don't know if you are if you know of this, but in the UK.

[00:22:41] No, I can't say that. Hold on. That's okay. I might need you to cut this. Basically. That's okay. The two most common forms of Christianity, debatably, this is debatable. But, for me, growing up, it was... Catholicism or the Church of [00:23:00] England. Now, you can, in the UK, you can tell by driving, if you know what to look for, you can tell by driving past what church is what, because a Catholic church will be embezzled and you'll go inside and it's really, There's gold candle stands, there's, everything's colourful, there's jewels, there's gold, there's because, their theory is, this is the home of God, it needs to be fit for a king.

[00:23:24] Church of England, however, are, no, Jesus was a humble carpenter, we don't need all this embellishment. As you're driving round the UK you'll pass churches very frequently, especially if you're in the countryside. And a Church of England church will look very grey, very simple brick building. A Catholic church, however, will be, they'll have really brightly coloured stained glass windows.

[00:23:45] You can really tell the difference when you go inside as well, because a Church of England church is very simple. And their reason is... Jesus was humble. We should give anything we have to the poor as he taught. Now, growing up Catholic and learning that, I was [00:24:00] like hang on, they're right, what?

[00:24:03] And I'm here. Oh, shit.

[00:24:05] Ashley: Oh, shit. Guys, I think we're wrong. Yeah, I'm on

[00:24:15] Sophie: the wrong so much to do with it that I disagree with. I say recently, he'll be one very soon, but it still feels recent to me that we had our first little boy. And we looked into getting him baptized because although obviously I'm a witch, Alex is an atheist. It's family tradition for us.

[00:24:33] Really. Yeah. Yeah. Or, but the fact that the concept of baptism is the belief that all newborn babies are born with original sin and need to be cleansed. What the fuck is that about? I know this tiny little innocent, helpless brand new fresh energy, and you're like, sin

[00:24:55] Ashley: like the kid can't walk. Can't talk. They can just open their eyes and [00:25:00] cry. What did they do? Yeah, exactly.

[00:25:03] And,

[00:25:04] Sophie: Obviously, I knew all of this because of my Catholic education and I did try and forewarn Alex of this. But we went to what they call a baptismal meeting, which is if you want a Catholic baptism, you have to go to a meeting at a parish where they talk to you about what it entails.

[00:25:18] And Alex just looked at me 15 minutes in and he went, we're not doing this. Shall we leave now? Okay. Okay. That's fine. We tried. But, it's it's crazy, isn't it, really? I can't remember why I went off on that tangent. I do apologize.

[00:25:36] Ashley: No, it's all good. I love a good Church tangent and again, just like Sophie said we're not here to shit on anybody.

[00:25:42] We're talking facts. Yeah We're just talking facts and we're just talking about what we think. So yeah, of course you

[00:25:49] Sophie: Experience, it's like I've just read all this on social media, this has been my life Yes. And I, I really do not mean any disrespect to anybody and their beliefs.

[00:25:59] Of [00:26:00] course. And also just to highlight, I am talking about the extremes. Yeah, you do have the middle ground, the grey area, which is why, again, coming back to Grey Witch. Grey

[00:26:11] Ashley: Witch. And I say it all the time. Exactly. I say it all the time cause I have friends, I have people in my family who are religious.

[00:26:19] Christian. I have friends who are religious Jewish people or religious Muslims. Or people I know it's never a problem and all the people I know it's not a problem for them because it gives them comfort It's something that's positive in their life. So that's awesome. That's literally what that's literally what you do and what I do, too It's yeah, the things we believe it's because it gives us comfort.

[00:26:41] It's because it helps us is because it yeah It makes our lives better for those people. That's great. Like

[00:26:47] Sophie: that's their version of it. Exactly. It's if something makes you feel good and encourages you to do good, what the hell is wrong with that? Yeah,

[00:26:55] Ashley: exactly. It's that's never the issue.

[00:26:58] It's when [00:27:00] it's used to oppress or upset other people. Yeah. Or this is a, you can't. And I always say it's the rules. It's the rules that people made because if we got our friends Mohammed and Jesus and Moses down here, they would be very confused probably about what we were doing. This I said guys.

[00:27:19] Yeah, they would all be like, This is not what we said. We did not say any of these things. You guys are misqu And I said this too, I was talking about something, I was talking about Islam. I was like, Islam at the time, when it, when the books were written, super progressive. And we, I actually had to read the Quran in one of my classes.

[00:27:38] I had to read a lot of religious books throughout my life. I had to read parts of the Quran. Very progressive. Yeah, they talk about women's rights and how if your husband is, if you want to divorce your husband, first of all, it's you can. That's your option. If you want to, number one. Number two.

[00:27:54] Yeah. I did not know that. Oh yeah, they're like, it's fine. And then they're also like, oh, especially if he's, [00:28:00] beating you if he's being mean to you, that's okay. And if he's, especially if he's being mean to you, Oh, not even, I don't think, I think it's just divorce. Every woman gets 25 percent of their husband's stuff.

[00:28:12] That was the rule. So that she's not like destitute. And I was like, WHAAAT?

[00:28:21] Get me married? Exactly. So it's just the people who come and again, it's only the extremists, not normal people. If you normal people are like, yeah, this is completely reasonable. But it's the 1 percent of these. Different faiths who decide that everybody, we're going to take this to the most extreme point and then it just, it falls apart.

[00:28:43] Absolutely. So anyway, that's our religious

[00:28:46] Sophie: rant. I hate to say it as well, just to finish. A lot of it comes when people realize they can profit from it or has, when people, as you were saying, if they could, unfortunately there were [00:29:00] the most evil people in time who thought okay, people are believing this, people are devoting their lives to this.

[00:29:06] How can we monetize?

[00:29:07] Ashley: Exactly. It's just like how cults start to, people are like I have a giant ego. And I would like some money. And some attention while he writes it. And some attention, what do I do? And that's political. I'm gonna make these people work all day and never sleep and tell them that they have to give up all their money.

[00:29:32] Great, I've figured it out.

[00:29:37] Sophie: As soon as we mentioned religion, I was like, Oh my gosh, I have so much to say.

[00:29:41] Ashley: This podcast is about rambling. So it's totally fine. Just as your podcast. I was like, we're getting along. This is good.

[00:29:52] Sophie: We knew this would be though. Yeah,

[00:29:54] Ashley: we discussed this, so it's not a problem. Even though we and Sophie are both hot because in our [00:30:00] respective countries it is warm

[00:30:01] Sophie: Too warm for September.

[00:30:02] Someone

[00:30:04] Ashley: please write a letter. Please. Somebody talk to the big man because I'm confused. Please. So even though it's September, we're recording this, it's probably going to come out very close to Christmas time. Cool. Yeah, so it's, so we're going to pretend. So we feel better that it's, ooh, it's cold in here, it's so cold.

[00:30:22] Yeah. I'm about that. Exactly.

[00:30:25] Sophie: I've got my oranges, and my cinnamon, and my holly.

[00:30:28] Ashley: Yeah. We're ready. We're gonna do our dish of the week. So for our dish of the week, we're gonna talk about Yule foods, like things people like to do during Yule. And holiday time. I love Yule.

[00:30:38] Sophie: Yule is, I think, Do you know, again, sorry.

[00:30:41] Being grey witch, it's, and chaos. It's it sounds really bad, but it's like you pick and choose what you resonate with. Mabon, Samhain, and Yule are my big three Sabbats. Yeah, I love them. Yule in particular. It's just saying.

[00:30:57] Ashley: Yes! We love a Yule. And I love [00:31:00] food, tell me about it.

[00:31:01] Yeah, that's fine. Also, there's something very like to me like, I don't know if like Romantic is the word about the longest night of the year. I don't know something. I really like about that. It's just neat Yeah, and then I get sick of it like a week later cuz I'm like, where's the Sun It's only one day I get happy

[00:31:23] Sophie: yeah, I'm quite I am quite happy when you know with six hours daylight I am.

[00:31:29] I'm tired. I am really. I should go and live in somewhere I don't know, where's cold? I don't

[00:31:33] Ashley: know. Oh, you could go to one of, yeah, or you could go to one of these places near like the Arctic Circle where they get three months of darkness or whatever. Take me.

[00:31:46] I'm always nervous for those people. I'm like, are you guys all right? But they seem to be fine. Are you want a lamp? Are you scared? Okay. So some of the foods we got, I got this from Actually, the website of a different [00:32:00] podcast, Otherworldly Oracle and they have some Yule recipes, which I like here.

[00:32:05] So we got ham. That's a traditional one. And they talk about for the Norse ancestors, they were really big into doing ham because they would sacrifice a giant boar on, during Yule and then sacrifice it to the god Freyr. Prayer. Yes. Is it Freya? This is not, that's not Freya. I don't know. Norse spelling is confusing.

[00:32:26] It might be Freya. It is. Yes. No, it's a god, so it's probably Freya. Okay, don't worry. It's Freya. Yeah. They would sacrifice a giant boar, so we got, and then eat it. Yeah some, sometimes they sacrifice foods and it's okay to eat it after. Sometimes they don't. Depends on the culture. But for them, they eat it.

[00:32:44] That's why we're eating ham. We love a ham. And then we have wassail. Yes, a traditional Yule recipe. So wassail is ooh, tradition comes from the British Isles. It's a hot cider drink. It's good. I've had it. I like

[00:32:57] Sophie: it. I haven't, but I've [00:33:00] also quit drinking now.

[00:33:01] Ashley: Oh, okay. I'm sure there's a, I'm sure there's like a virgin one that we can make.

[00:33:06] Sophie: Yeah, I did look into this actually last year because another podcast that I listen to, I think it's a really popular one, Comfy Cozy Witch. Don't know if you're familiar with her. Yeah yeah, so Wasale, she spoke about Wasale, oh, I really want to do it, but I think the core ingredient is cider. Yeah,

[00:33:23] Ashley: okay.

[00:33:25] Oh man, I'm like, can we use like apple cider? Maybe, I don't know, we're gonna figure it out. For our non drinking witches, that's no problem. Yeah, because everybody deserves to like it. Are you, I'm sure you could use like... I maybe could do like a hot cider, or maybe could just do instead like a spiced cranberry juice and just call it Whistle.

[00:33:45] I love that idea. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like you could do cranberry juice, cinnamon, or whatever else we're putting in there. I think orange is

[00:33:54] Sophie: a key ingredient. Yeah, orange. Do you

[00:33:57] Ashley: know what, I'll let you do it. No, you're good. No, it [00:34:00] is. And I'm sure you could, I'm sure you could make it without any liquor.

[00:34:03] Then we have, this is called, C O P N O, which is Italian seafood soup, and they put a bunch of different seafoods. In it mussels, clams, oysters, calamari fish. So if you are allergic to seafood, sorry, I don't think you can drink this one. But that's okay. We have others. It's not cheap because it's all seafood.

[00:34:23] And so this is why people would make it during the winter holidays because it was the celebration time. So they're like, we're gonna spend all our money on this. Yeah, cause all that stuff is expensive. Then you have, Surf and Turf Steak and Crab. That sounds delicious. So people buy this for Christmas sometimes and Yule.

[00:34:43] Sophie: Yeah, Surf and Turf is quite popular in the UK. If you go to any pub as we have you'll get a Surf and Turf. If, under their grill menu, you'll get a Surf and Turf option of kind.

[00:34:54] Ashley: Okay. I think I've only had a surf and turf one time. I went to someone's birthday and I was like, I'm gonna eat [00:35:00] fancy.

[00:35:00] And I got steak and crab. I don't eat seafood at all. Okay, so you're not. I really don't like it. You're just doing the turf. That's okay. It's a very, I think I like I like seafood and I like calamari. I like octopus. A lot of people are like, this is gross. And I get it. It's a very unique texture.

[00:35:22] Sophie: I don't know what it is. I do, but it's a broad thing for me. And if it comes from the sea, I'm not interested. That's okay. I

[00:35:28] Ashley: get it. We can be friends. Fish are friends, not friends. No problem. You're just friends. That's fine. It's not a problem. Eggnog, a lot of people like eggnog you can get it alcoholic or non alcoholic, so everybody can drink it.

[00:35:43] I don't really like it. I think eggnog's a very American thing. I, yeah, I don't like eggnog, really. I do though I think it's coquito, which is like Puerto Rican, and if you're Hispanic, I'm sorry if it's not [00:36:00] only Puerto Rican. It's just a Puerto Rican's, I know, mi coquito. So it's like eggnog, but the Puerto Rican version.

[00:36:06] It's got a little bit more spices in it and stuff. It's very good. Eggnog is a little more plain. And then you got yule log recipe, where this is not really a recipe. You literally can use a real log for this, and put candles in it. Yeah, candles in it and decorate it. Be careful, because it's a log.

[00:36:23] And you're lighting it on fire, so just be very

[00:36:25] Sophie: careful. Yeah. Am I know

[00:36:32] Ashley: what somebody said the other day, and I don't know if it was on the podcast or somebody just told me this. But apparently Martin Luther, he was the one who figured out who made Christmas trees. Because he saw Christmas tree lights.

[00:36:45] He saw the stars coming through a tree, and I guess he was like, Wow, this is beautiful. We should do this in our houses, and we should put candles on them. And I was like, Bro, that is nice, but why would you put candles in a tree? I don't know. [00:37:00] Yeah. That's a bad idea. And they didn't

[00:37:02] Sophie: have, like when this first started, they would not have had fire extinguishers.

[00:37:05] Ashley: No. They would have they would have panic, and they would have to go get water from the river. Because it was like the year 1600 and everyone was like, Oh my god, the town's on fire!

[00:37:19] Sophie: Just a funny story about it's not a story. I'm shit at telling stories and jokes, so just bear with me. But yeah, something that I read, it's all year round, people with dogs tell their dogs they can't bring their sticks in the house, and at Christmas we bring a whole fucking tree.

[00:37:31] Dad's Really? What's this?

[00:37:38] Ashley: Are you serious? Oh, the poor dog is this is how you're really gonna act right now? Okay, I see you guys. It's the same thing

[00:37:44] Sophie: with spiders and cobwebs. We spend all year getting rid of the webs. And then on Halloween, we're like, All

[00:37:49] Ashley: the webs! We go so far to buy fake webs to put in our house that's crazy.

[00:37:58] So then we have, also we have rum [00:38:00] cake, which is a very, this is a very Caribbean thing too. People love rum cake, especially in Jamaica. I like rum cake not my favorite cake, but it's good. We have sun wheel bread, which is a traditional Yule Recipe. This is a Northern European thing where they make a special type of bread.

[00:38:17] They add caraway seeds and some other stuff. Again, all these recipes will be in the show notes. A hot toddy. Hot chocolate drinks. And then we have fire roasted tomato bisque. Which is Sophie's not drinking because there's crab in it. We

[00:38:38] have all our recipes there. Again, I'm gonna put it all in the show notes. So you guys can figure it out. Did I hear that right? Crap in a drink. No, sorry, not a drink. This, that one's a soup. Oh, I was gonna say, all my

[00:38:50] Sophie: life, what are these people doing?

[00:38:52] Ashley: Stop it. Yeah, that's just nasty. We're not doing that.

[00:38:56] No, thank you. Never. I'll pass. [00:39:00] I'm gonna do I'll do our plug, then we'll move to our next section. Okay. If you really like the show... You can keep following it. You can keep listening to it. It comes out every thursday. It's free also i'm dying with the divine on instagram and facebook And if you really like the show, I would always love and appreciate if you guys give us a reading or a review.

[00:39:20] We love it Do that on wherever you listen to your podcast You can also give me a little tip if you want a couple dollars throw it my way if you like dollars pounds euros Wherever you live yen I take francs, I take rubles, whatever and if you have if you have any suggestions or questions or comments, you want to tell us how much your bedding costs?

[00:39:43] Email me. I dine within the dining pod. I want to have a section. Yes, we're gonna have a section

[00:39:49] Sophie: and I want to know if yours is a one piece or an insert and a cover

[00:39:54] Ashley: Okay, ladies, we need these questions answered Please so email me at diewithadevinepod [00:40:00] at gmail. com so I can answer your questions and we can tell Sophie about our different beddings I've been very excited to talk about this.

[00:40:06] We're gonna talk about so this is our Tea Time where we talk about different subjects and we learn something. And today's Tea Time is about one of my favorite holidays that I learned about a couple years ago. It's called Saturnalia. Have you ever heard of Saturnalia? No. Okay, girl, we're in for a ride.

[00:40:24] Saturnalia is so fun. Yes. Okay. So Saturnalia, or I also refer to it as like a carnival celebration on steroids. It is. Even though it's not a carnival, I'll explain. Okay, so you guys remember the Romans, right? How they were like, wild as shit. So they had the God, they would celebrate the God Saturn for Saturday.

[00:40:50] And he was the equivalent to Kronos in Greek mythology. So Kronos, I think, was like Zeus dad, right? Didn't he try to eat Zeus? Or [00:41:00] he ate everybody else and didn't eat Zeus.

[00:41:01] Sophie: Yeah, I have my Greek mythology book. Oh, great! Awesome! Because I'm currently doing a bit on Hecate. Okay. So yeah. Do you want me to check for you?

[00:41:13] Ashley: Yeah, while we're talking, please check because I'm telling the wrong thing. I feel like Kronos is the one who ate everybody, and then he didn't, and then the mom... Hid Zeus somewhere on an island and Then Zeus came with a C. C R O Maybe it's with a K sometimes. I'm not sure.

[00:41:35] Keep going.

[00:41:36] That's right. Okay. So anyway, Sophie's fact checking us. So Kronos is a Greek equivalent. So anyway, Saturn. Saturn is a god of agriculture So obviously all these communities and different cultures Have a celebrations around our culture because that's what keeps everybody alive. The God of agriculture is a really big deal So originally no problem So [00:42:00] originally we have Saturnalia was the like harvest almost like an agricultural festival and it was one day But then it got so wild That people were letting it go seven days.

[00:42:13] Sometimes it would be two weeks so It was celebrated on winter solstice because, okay, think of this, the God of agriculture, right? Winter solstice is the longest night. So after that, the sun starts coming out again, meaning that the God of agriculture is like, Oh, don't worry. Later on, you'll be able to plant stuff.

[00:42:33] So they're like, everyone's hooray, thank

[00:42:37] God we're going to survive. So they would go to the temple of Saturn and they would basically party for Days again, like I told you it was gonna be one day Then it turned to seven days, but a lot of historians say that it depended on the ruler because sometimes the ruler was like, okay Maybe it's one day.

[00:42:58] Sometimes it's seven. They [00:43:00] said one ruler sometimes would be like this is too long We need to get shit done in the kingdom. You guys can't we need to work Jesus So but Nero, you guys remember Nero, he's the one who they say was playing the violin or , playing his harp, one of those interesting, a string instrument, while Rome was burning down, and they think that he may have burned Rome just for inspiration.

[00:43:26] Nero was a mess! We're gonna have an episode one day about Nero, because... Oh, he was crazy.

[00:43:32] Sophie: I love that the whole city's burning down and he's just He's

[00:43:35] Ashley: He's this is great. And I'm like, Nero, it actually wasn't. Tons of people died. It was

[00:43:38] Sophie: terrible. It reminds me of at the end of the Titanic, where the...

[00:43:42] Yes! Oh, why have I forgotten? It's not an orchestra, because it's only no, it's like a,

[00:43:46] Ashley: it's like a quartet, or like a chamber, or like a small group. Yes. And they just start

[00:43:51] Sophie: playing, yeah, cause they're

[00:43:52] Ashley: like, we're gonna die anyway, we might as well just play. And oh, crazy, oh no. Not the Titanic. I know, I died. [00:44:00] So terrible. Saturn when Saturn reigns, so this is his holiday. Nobody would work and everyone was just eating. Okay. So let's talk about... Woo! That's what I'm saying. It was wild. No, let's do it. It was wild out here. People were singing. So the first day, let's break it down, The first day, people go to the temple and they would sacrifice a lamb.

[00:44:25] And then there would be a lot of food and a huge feast for everybody. Everyone's eating. Woo hoo! This is great. Then the second day... People would go to, people would have like their private parties in their house, and they would also keep eating. Gambling was allowed at this point, because beyond this holiday, you weren't allowed to gamble.

[00:44:48] Yeah, people were gambling. There was trivia. I love that. They had trivia guys. They're having trivia

[00:44:56] Sophie: night. Did they have a cheesy intro as well and some guy in

[00:44:59] Ashley: a [00:45:00] mic? Oh, we're going to get to it. We're going to get to it because they did. So they had, they oh girl, they did.

[00:45:07] So I'm going to tell you. So they had also. No, you're good. You're good. That wasn't me telling you to be quiet at all. I'm sorry.

[00:45:15] Sophie: No, but

[00:45:16] Ashley: I should. No. This is the whole point of the podcast is if you don't say anything, then it's just me talking. Nobody wants to hear that for hours. Please interrupt me constantly.

[00:45:26] I love it. It's fine. Then they even had bobbing for apples in cold water outside. This is what they were doing. Okay probably good for your skin. Tighten it up. Every night. Oh, again, I'm with the food. Every night there was a feast. Oh, and the one of the fun things. There's so many fun things about Sarnalia was there was role reversal in every home.

[00:45:48] So in the houses, you have the people who are living there and they usually had slaves. Unfortunately they would switch roles. And there were special hats they got to wear to switch roles. [00:46:00] This is crazy, right? The masters would serve the slaves, and the slaves would get to be the masters during Saturnalia.

[00:46:07] The masters had to do anything the slaves wanted them to do, basically. But in the end, what usually happened was the masters and the slaves would just all end up hanging out together. And everybody during Sour and Elio was very equal. It was like, there's no levels here. Aww, that's beautiful.

[00:46:20] Yeah, it was just for everyone to hang

[00:46:23] Sophie: out and have fun. How could they do that? And have such a nice time? And then be like, oh shit, it's over now. Then switch.

[00:46:29] Ashley: I don't know. I really don't know. I think, I don't know if they just like, Hopefully, I really don't know. Actually, I really have no idea, but they did.

[00:46:37] Apparently. They would have, the slaves would wear, their hats would be called a freedom cap, which is cute. They probably were also like, could we just be free? But, no, only during Saturnalia. It was terrible. That song is cruel,

[00:46:50] Sophie: isn't it? It's mean.

[00:46:53] Ashley: I know, now that I think about it, it's mean.

[00:46:55] , it was old timey times and it was terrible. That's how they do it. So during this time [00:47:00] also, there was no school. No banking no business. That's why some of the rulers were like you guys We can't. We're killing the economy here. We're

[00:47:09] Sophie: having a great time, but we're gonna suffer

[00:47:11] Ashley: if you don't stop.

[00:47:13] We have to get back to business. And everyone, literally everyone was forced to have font. You had to participate, and we'll talk about that in a second, too. No, because

[00:47:23] Sophie: Alex, my husband, he always says that I like mandatory fun. I am somebody that's gonna be like at 7 o'clock, we're gonna play this game, and at 8 o'clock, we're gonna do this game, and then we're gonna eat, and it's gonna be great!

[00:47:33] Oh my god! And, yeah. All my family and friends are like, Oh God, could you not just let people relax?

[00:47:40] Ashley: No! No! We're gonna have fun! We are going to enjoy ourselves! Together as a family and friends! Oh my God! Damn it! Get out! Exactly! Stop it! I'm doing this because I love you! Oh my God! They would also give each other gag gifts.[00:48:00]

[00:48:00] So they think that this actually may have been... One of the origins of Boxing Day. Because, yeah, they were like, oh, they were gonna give each other little gifts. And because the slaves were able to do it too, they would give each other little gifts, and it was fun. Everybody loved it. When I

[00:48:19] Sophie: was little, I used to think Boxing Day was called Boxing Day because of all the boxes left over from Christmas Day.

[00:48:24] That

[00:48:25] Ashley: actually makes perfect sense. I had no I thought Boxing Day was about boxing, like actual fighting. Yeah, I was like, so everybody has to do boxing on Box that's what I just assumed, but it's all had to do with A lot of families

[00:48:39] Sophie: do, but I don't

[00:48:40] Ashley: think it's fun. Yeah, no, I think they're just doing it because they don't like each other.

[00:48:44] Yeah. 24 hours is enough, I'll see you next year. And you're like, we already had the meal and I'm ready to go home. I don't want to talk to anybody. They gave each other gadgets. I don't know what kind of gadgets back then, but [00:49:00] they gave each other gadgets. Small statues. Probably fidget spinners.

[00:49:03] Probably. Yeah, like ancient fidget spinners. Could you imagine if they unearthed that at a dig site? They're like, what is this? And they're like, it's an ancient fidget spinner. Because people had ADHD back then. And so They had small statues. So many gifts. Then, of course, because it's Roman, there was tons of wine and tons of orgies.

[00:49:27] Cause it wouldn't be Roman history without orgy.

[00:49:30] Sophie: They all wanted a piece of

[00:49:31] Ashley: the pie. Exactly. So then, talking about, like you mentioned, like the corny guy who does the intro for trivia, the corny person, in each home, there was a Saturn Lichis Principalis, and this was the master of ceremonies of the Saturnalia celebration in that house.

[00:49:50] Yes! So that person was the leader, and their job was literally to cause chaos, and just do shenanigans. All day. So[00:50:00]

[00:50:02] I'm like shenanigans. That's my whole day. I love it. I know. So the job as the master of Saturnalia or the leader of Saturnalia was to chase people around. Okay.

[00:50:16] Sophie: Imagine being on the other end of that. They're like, mate, fuck off. Oh God.

[00:50:21] Ashley: Can I tell you something? One of my least favorite. Games as a child was duck goose because I don't like being chased.

[00:50:28] I'm not fast and like I Was never a fast girl But and I don't want to be chased and I'm stressed and the whole time I'm like, I don't want to be playing this I remember being five years old and they're like, let's play duck goose. I was like, damn it Hey the stupid game cuz tag was easier right because You're already standing up, yes?

[00:50:53] Yeah, you're already did you guys play tag? Yeah! Okay, I'm just making sure that this is not a weird

[00:50:59] Sophie: [00:51:00] American thing We call it no, we call it TIG, but

[00:51:03] Ashley: Okay, TIG, okay, no problem. Yes, exactly, so you're already standing up during tag, right? And then you can be strategic about it. Because I'm not fast It doesn't mean I'm dumb.

[00:51:13] I stayed as close to base as possible. So when they would say, Okay, the person who's the seeker, they stand on base, and then everybody's gotta run and hide. My smart ass would stay wherever I could hide that was closest to base. Because as soon as the seeker leaves, I'm running to base, and I'm staying there for the rest of the game.

[00:51:33] And you win. And I win. Ah, I usually didn't get tagged because I wasn't dumb. Unless they found me first, that's the only time I would get tagged. But, if I could really strategically figure out how I could stay closest... I was fine. That's what you do when you're not fat. Smart. Yeah, you gotta work around it.

[00:51:51] Exactly. Okay, back to the leader. I'm sorry. See, I love it. I love our tangents. Back to the leader. The leader is also getting strippers. [00:52:00] Strippers! Woo! Hang on,

[00:52:02] Sophie: hang on. This has always baffled me. If everybody was on holiday, did the strippers get paid? Cause they were telling me to keep working.

[00:52:11] Do you know what I mean? Yeah, pedantic?

[00:52:14] Ashley: No, you're not, because it's actually a good question. Because if I'm a stripper, I better be getting paid for this.

[00:52:20] Sophie: I know, this isn't, yeah. I don't know, I suppose for some people it is a lot of fun, but.

[00:52:25] Ashley: But I'm sure also they were hiring sex workers for the orgies.

[00:52:29] I'm sure. Cause anybody, any sex worker, I want to be paid. I'm still at work. So pay me. They better pay him. And they had all this food. Cash App. Not Roman Cash App. Not my girl pulling out her tablet, literally, a stone tablet, and calculating how much he owes her. And she's girl, that's 14 gold coins you owe me for this.

[00:52:56] Maybe they just... Per hour. Per hour. Maybe they just [00:53:00] sent the bill at the end. Maybe they were like, during... Yeah, at the end, we'll send the bill. Yeah, we'll send it through a carrier pigeon or whatever they did back then. Oh, the other job of the master of Saturnalia was to insult and basically like roast the guests to make fun of them.

[00:53:17] They usually dress like a joker and just to make sure everybody was having a good time because they were like, this is great. Dance. Yes. Usually it's

[00:53:27] Sophie: Sorry, that was a very British thing I just realized. No, that's fine. If you're having a bant, bants, banter,

[00:53:33] Ashley: it's, no I got it. Trust me.

[00:53:35] And please insert your British humor anywhere that you feel necessary. It's everybody is good with it. This usually started between, like I said, it was around Yule. So December, around, between December 17th and December 23rd is when it started, or when the whole celebration was. Now, remember Constantine?

[00:53:55] Remember the Council of Nicaea? I feel like we've mentioned this many times on this podcast. That's when they made the [00:54:00] Bible and everything. And Constantine was the one who was like, Everybody, we're going to be Christian now because he had a dream. We're going to talk about Constantine one day. He had a dream.

[00:54:08] He was going into battle. And his mom's talk to God and Jesus about it. And he's Huh? And so he did, but then he won the battle. And then after that, he's Alright, everybody be Christian because it worked. Yeah. So Constantine was like He was, he, Constantine's thought process was, let's put Christmas, the birth of Jesus, around this time.

[00:54:28] Since everybody enjoys Saturnalia so much, let's just put it down here. Yes. Because everybody, the agreement was, and I've read this a couple times Jesus was probably born in the spring. Not in the winter. Yeah. But Constantine's let's just replace, they do this all the time with pagan holidays.

[00:54:46] Let's just replace this one with that

[00:54:48] Sophie: one. Yeah. Oh, those guys are doing that. Yeah. It seems to be working for them, so let's, we will do it. Exactly. We will make it our

[00:54:56] Ashley: own. Exactly.

[00:54:58] Sophie: Let's just move it over. And over time, guys, you're not [00:55:00] gonna believe this, but over time, they will think they're the mad ones.

[00:55:04] Stick with me.

[00:55:06] Ashley: Stick with me. We're playing the long game here, okay? This is the long game. Yeah, so that's what he did. So then there was a poet. Oh, no, I didn't put it in my, oh, I did put it in my notes. Okay, anyway, there was a poet called Catchless and he called it the best of days. He said Serenalia is my favorite time of year.

[00:55:27] I can't wait for Serenalia every year And because it was so popular Constantine again tried to replace it with Christmas, but people didn't really care that much They were like we'll celebrate Christmas So it start he replaced it with Christmas in 387 AD.

[00:55:42] It wasn't until the 800s 9th century That people were still celebrating it. 500 years later, they were like, This is so fun, we can't stop. They had to try to outlaw it a couple times. They kept outlawing it. And then people You

[00:55:58] Sophie: outlaw something, all that [00:56:00] happens is it goes underground and still happens.

[00:56:02] Exactly,

[00:56:02] Ashley: pretty much. So there was one guy though, his name was Pilny. I think he's a Roman historian. And he hated it. And he made sure to write it down that he hated Sardinellia because he said everyone's so damn loud, I can't get any work done, and I'm getting tired. He even built a soundproof room in his home because he was so tired of Sardinellia.

[00:56:25] Sophie: I'd love to know how he did that in those days.

[00:56:29] Ashley: How? He probably, yeah, I don't, I have no idea. I guess they figured out. Maybe he went underground and built, maybe he put like certain kinds of wood. I don't know. They probably figured something out. But, this is the only person I had read in my research who really hated Saturdalia and made a point to write about it.

[00:56:47] He was like, Yeah, he's everyone will shut the hell up. I'm trying to get all my philosophy and history writings down and you guys keep fucking talking. Jesus Christ. He couldn't stand it. So that's Sarnalia.[00:57:00] Let's bring it back. This is what I'm thinking. Let's make a global movement and we bring back Sarnalia because I love it.

[00:57:06] I, count me in. I'm there. We'll do it. Me and Sophie, collectively, are going to make this happen. Yeah! It only happens for five days a year, but we hold celebrations and we act a fool. And we engage in a lot of shenanigans. So let's do sign up

[00:57:24] Sophie: here. Sign up here.

[00:57:29] Yeah. Your name on the guest list.

[00:57:32] Ashley: You get a swag bag with the first 500 people.

[00:57:38] Who doesn't love a free t shirt? Come on, you can do it. So now we're to our last section. We have story time. Yay. It's a story. So we are going to tell a folklore ish, but actually this woman, I think she really lived. English folklore today. Ooh! Yay! We're gonna talk about this [00:58:00] lady, Mother Shipton. Have you ever heard of Mother Shipton?

[00:58:03] No, sorry. That's okay. I hadn't either. So this is great. We're both learning together. Okay. Yay. So this is a thing. So once upon a time in 1488 there was this 15 year old orphan. Oh, no. Shoot. That must have been the fucking worst to be an orphan in 1588. Yeah. 14. Yeah, 1488. Sorry, even worse. So her name was Angela Soothetale, and she gave birth to a baby in a cave in North Yorkshire.

[00:58:34] Now, yeah, so she gave the baby the name Ursula Southall. This is... The people who wrote about this lived like 200 years later, so we have some conflicting or interesting stories. We don't know how true all of it is. But this part about Angela is true because I think it was written in the record at the time.

[00:58:56] She... Now, this is the part we don't know, but [00:59:00] it says that Shipton, Ursula, was born during a violent storm and she came out deformed and, quote, ugly, was born with a hunchback and bulging eyes. I don't know if she was a baby, so I don't know how her back could have been hunched as a baby. I don't know.

[00:59:16] But sources were, also said that, Again, this is folklore guys. So don't get on, don't be like, you're making fun of a baby. I'm not. This is what they said in the folklore. They said that Ursula cackled instead of cried after she was born. And yeah, so then they said when she started cackling, the storm stopped.

[00:59:39] Okay, we, people just tell tales. Anyway. So they did say though, for real, when she got older, she did have... Like a hunchback and or hook nose and bulging eyes. Okay. I don't know how true it is Anyway, so poor angela. She had a baby and angela's portrait was 15 Now again folklore. This is what they said.[01:00:00]

[01:00:00] They said angela was either one seduced by the devil And had an affair with the devil and called the devil Ursula, which is probably not true. And and then maybe or she was a witch and she asked the devil to have a baby with her. So I thought about it, I was like, the sad truth of it was probably poor Angela was taken advantage of.

[01:00:23] Or, assaulted and that's probably the sad truth of what had happened. She was 15. Agreed. Yeah

[01:00:28] Sophie: saying that though, back then 15 was middle

[01:00:30] Ashley: aged. You know what? To be honest, I didn't think of that and you're right. It could have been, it could have been that she was, like, with somebody or married and her husband died or something, a couple different things.

[01:00:45] But she was an orphan. So who knows what could have happened here. Yeah, for sure. Maybe she was looking for help and somebody took advantage of her. So there was a cave where she lived and apparently the cave, a lot of these things [01:01:00] didn't work in her favor because near the cave was a pool that was shaped like a skull.

[01:01:04] So it made it even more creepy. Yeah, it's whoo she lives near a pool that's shaped like... If

[01:01:10] Sophie: somebody wants to come to my house and carve me a pool in the shape of a skull, I'm game. Okay, just hit me up. I'm all about that, especially in this weather.

[01:01:24] Ashley: It also didn't help that the pool, the skull pool had certain minerals in it. So when you would throw something in the pool, If you went to go get it find it, it turned it into stone. It was probably a lot of calcium or something in the pool. Again, even more creepy. They're like, Angela has Agatha!

[01:01:42] Sorry, it's Agatha. I kept calling her Angela. It's Agatha. Agatha has enchanted the pool. Oh! Okay, guys, calm down. It's probably just calcium water. And then so the other problem was Agatha would not tell Anybody who the father was again, it was probably like a sad case and she probably was [01:02:00] like, yeah, feeling ashamed of something that was not her fault.

[01:02:02] And she shouldn't have been ashamed of she wouldn't even tell the local magistrate who tried to get it out of her. She wouldn't tell them. So because of this because it's 1488 and Agnes is a 15 year old girl who has no baby and no dad for the baby who has a baby and no father for the baby and no parents.

[01:02:19] She was an outcast and that sucks. So she spent most of her time with Ursula in the pool. In the pool. Maybe in the pool and in the cave. So then, again, more folklore. This is what they said during happened during Ursula's childhood. They said that when Ursula was two, she was left alone with somebody who ended up being her foster mom to run errands.

[01:02:42] So the mom returned, and when she turned, returned to the home, the house was wide open, the door was wide open, and she went in the door being nervous, because she's is somebody in my house? Apparently, there was wailing, and Ursula was perched up in the corner somewhere, [01:03:00] cackling. Now, we don't know if that really happened.

[01:03:02] Again.

[01:03:02] Sophie: Did someone, did they seek an exorcism at any

[01:03:05] Ashley: stage? No, maybe they should have, I don't know why they didn't, because obviously they keep saying she's so bad. Then fix

[01:03:11] Sophie: it. I'm not being funny, but if I came home and my little boy was in the top corner, cackling, I'd have a problem with that.

[01:03:20] I would, that would, I would

[01:03:21] Ashley: question that. Yeah, I would be like, this is weird. I'm gonna go seek spiritual counsel. Get down! No! Do not put yourself in a corner floating in the sky, that's weird. And then, okay, so another source says, this again is a source from 200 years later, that Ursula, she was walking past a group of people when she was running errands, she was a little older at this point, running errands for her mom, and they were mocking her, calling her names, making fun of her face, ah, you're ugly, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, bullies.

[01:03:53] So Ursula said, apparently she kept walking. But then the people who were making fun of her, they were eating lunch, and they stood [01:04:00] up to make fun of her. And then when they sat down, apparently, there was one guy who's there, all of a sudden, there was a toilet seat on top of his head, and it clapped down over him, I don't know.

[01:04:13] I was like, what? I know.

[01:04:17] Sophie: Did they have toilet seats in

[01:04:19] Ashley: 1480? I don't know what happened. This is just what I read. I was like, a toilet seat clapped down around. Maybe it was like a chamber pot was on his head and it hit him in the head. There was another person who was apparently wearing a hat. Oh, sorry, this is different.

[01:04:32] This is a chamber pot one. There was a man who was wearing a hat and all of a sudden his hat became a chamber pot. And then other people were laughing loudly, and they came around, they were tripping all over each other, they found A large pair of horns in front of a door when the people outside of this building came to go see what was going on.

[01:04:51] Cause they were screaming. It's a lot of weird stuff that they said that Ursula did. And they were saying that this was a sign, don't make fun of Ursula.[01:05:00] Cause she doesn't have time for your

[01:05:01] Sophie: shit. Sounds to me like she was just a girl that was divinely protected.

[01:05:06] Ashley: Exactly! Yes, by all sorts of stuff.

[01:05:09] So then she went from living in the cave to living in the woods. So she was living in the woods, and she became really good with the knowledge of herbs, and she knew, she was known all around. So people were making fun of her, but then they actually started to rely on her. She knew what all the herbs in the forest were for, she knew how to fix your problems.

[01:05:28] She came, she met a carpenter named Toby Shipton, and she married him, and that's how she became then Mother Shipton or Ursula Shipton. And apparently the townspeople thought that she had actually bewitched him, cause they're like, oh, you're so ugly, why would he marry, maybe he just liked her. Maybe she was nice.

[01:05:45] Maybe we're not all as shallow as you guys. Exactly! Maybe he was just like, She's nice to me and I like her. And she's very sweet and I've fallen in love. And she's smart. And she knows how to heal all my problems. Why wouldn't I want to marry this woman? Sounds like wife [01:06:00] material to me. What are you saying?

[01:06:03] Oh, are you kidding me? So then he but he unfortunately ended up dying early in 1514 And they thought she killed him probably because everyone was mean to her and they're like, oh you must have killed him She was probably grieving guys Assholes. How about that? Yeah, how about that? How about that? How about she was just sad that her husband died, and you're all being assholes?

[01:06:24] Okay. So then, the grief of her losing her husband prompted her to move even farther in the woods by herself because everyone was being so mean to her.

[01:06:34] Sophie: If I had her life, I would be so far in the woods. Yeah!

[01:06:38] Ashley: She was literally the witch

[01:06:39] Sophie: of the woods. Just leave me alone.

[01:06:41] Ashley: Yeah, stop being so nasty to me. And then she also though would also sometimes go and she lived in the same cave that she was born in.

[01:06:49] She would go into that cave for peace. People leave her the fuck alone. And she continued to create potions and herbal remedies for people. So she started being known [01:07:00] as mothership then because it became that people started, respecting her a little bit more. And also people would travel from far distances.

[01:07:09] To come see her to receive potions and different spells. There's even a letter from King Henry the 6th I believe, no, the 8th, I think, in 1537, where he talks about the Witch of York. And everyone's yeah, he's probably talking about her. And she also started to have a lot of different prophecies. One of the prophecies was, like, it was about her saying there's gonna be horses.

[01:07:37] that move but they don't breathe. It was something like that. But basically she was saying she predicted cars. There's a couple other things that she predicted even in her own town. I think it was like she predicted that like one of the bridges was gonna flood and then it did and everyone's oh my god, the bridge flooded.

[01:07:58] I'm like, yeah, the bridge probably was gonna [01:08:00] flood at some point like whatever. Yeah. Yeah, but it's fine. She had a couple interesting predictions there's a moth named after her and there's also many pubs that were named after her But I think there's only one that still exists in Yorkshire

[01:08:15] Sophie: Yeah, I am desperate to go to York.

[01:08:17] I've been it sounds really strange, but I've been called there quite a lot, but I've never actually been. And I really wanted to go for my birthday this year, but then just never got around to it. So it is on my bucket list because apparently it's like a really witchy kind of place to go.

[01:08:32] And I really want to go there. Really want to go.

[01:08:35] Ashley: Yes, it's very nice. Very beautiful. I've seen pictures. I think, I don't think I've ever been there. Maybe I have. I don't remember. I get, English geography is very confusing for me. I don't know where it's been. I was like maybe not.

[01:08:50] I don't know. I know Down Abbey's in Yorkshire because I love Down Abbey.

[01:08:55] Sophie: I've never watched it, oh, I should watch

[01:08:56] Ashley: it. The thing about Down Abbey is my mom, when it was [01:09:00] originally on, my mom would watch it. Cause my mom loves all that upstairs, downstairs kind of thing, she loves that. And I was like, one day she was watching it, this is when I still live with my mom, I was like, this looks so boring, what are you watching?

[01:09:13] And she's oh it's Downton Abbey, she's just watch it, like one episode. And I was instantly obsessed, I was like, this isn't boring, this is the best show ever! I love Downton Abbey, oh my god, it's so

[01:09:23] Sophie: good! I've gotta watch it, I've gotta watch it, but...

[01:09:26] Ashley: It's really good. Yeah. There's a lot of drama.

[01:09:29] I it. Yeah. It's really interesting. I love it. Okay. Yeah. So that's everything you need to know about Mother Shifton. She's interesting. There is, I think, somewhere in York, I believe, there is a bench with a model of her on it. Wow. Yeah. I'll put it in the blog. If I ever get this blog started.

[01:09:51] I'll put pictures. I'll put pictures of it there. So everyone can see it. But yeah, she's on there. And she became, she just was a woman who didn't [01:10:00] want to be bothered and everyone was being mean to her. But then she ended up helping all these people. Oh, and there was one story. I didn't write it down, did I?

[01:10:09] No, I didn't. But there was a story about how she there's a woman who stole her, somebody stole her stuff, like her clothes. So she went to Mothershipton and was like, Can you help me figure out who stole my clothes? And Mother Shipton's Go home, and in the morning, the person who stole your clothes is gonna bring it back.

[01:10:29] Apparently, yes, in the morning, the person who stole this girl's clothes came and she's I don't know what you're doing to me, but I'm tortured, and you need to take your clothes back, I'm sorry. And so she's Great! It worked! Yeah! Whatever she did. So that's our tale of the week, our story, and that brings us to the end of our show here.

[01:10:49] Oh no, the end Sophie, this has been so much fun. This has been amazing,

[01:10:54] Sophie: thank you so much. Thank you so much fun. [01:11:00] At some point, we need to schedule for you to come and do a spot online as well. That would be great.

[01:11:05] Ashley: Yes, we'll do that. It'll be fun. It'll be great. Yeah. Sophie, can you just tell people where they can find you on the

[01:11:14] Sophie: internet?

[01:11:15] Yeah, of course. So I am Ramblings of a Grey Witch, and it's grey with an E. I'm on all the podcast and Apple Podcasts are my Most used ones, but anyway, you can stream music or find a podcast search ramblings of a grey witch and you will find me I'm also on Instagram as ramblings of a grey witch podcast.

[01:11:36] I do have a Facebook group, but Guys, it's just, it's not working for me. But if you search Ramblings of a Grey Witch Podcast on Facebook, there is a group there as well. But I am more active on Instagram. Yeah, just thank you so much for having me. If you guys want to come and listen to what I do, you are more than welcome.

[01:11:55] Ashley and I share a very similar vibe, I

[01:11:57] Ashley: think. Yeah, we definitely do. I've been [01:12:00] listening to your podcast and I really enjoy it. Yeah, of course and as always all Sophie's information will be in the show notes Just one click and you can find her podcast and you can find her insta and all that good stuff

[01:12:13] Sophie: Thank you.

[01:12:14] I'm gonna say though. I am nowhere near as organized as you mine is just chaos chit chat But it just doesn't happen so, No. Just be warned.

[01:12:26] Ashley: It's totally, no, sometimes I listen, I like a podcast that has no structure sometimes. Sometimes you just want to be like, oh, I just want to listen to this informative thing.

[01:12:34] Very, I really enjoy your podcast. It's very good. Oh, thank you. Of course.

[01:12:38] Sophie: Yes. I'm gonna have to listen to a few episodes of yours that we would just hit it

[01:12:41] Ashley: off right away. Yeah. I was like, oh, she's cool. I listened to yours for 10 minutes. I was like. I like her. I was like, yeah, we're cool.

[01:12:49] Yeah. Yes.

[01:12:52] Like I said, Sophie's information will be in the show notes, everybody. And I just want to thank all of you to thank you guys for being here again. This is dying with the [01:13:00] divine. Again, you can find us on Instagram on Facebook. If you really enjoy the show, please give us a five star rating wherever you listen to your podcast.

[01:13:07] Again, any suggestions, any questions, any comments we have done with the divine pod at gmail. com email me anytime And if you want to follow me ashley, i'm at sankofa hs. That's s a n k o f a h s And sankofa healing sanctuary on facebook. Thank you so much for being here. I'll see you guys next thursday.

[01:13:27] Okay. Bye