Appalachian Superstitions and a Very Creepy Fairytale with Victoria from the Witchlit Podcast

Victoria

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[00:00:00] Ashl: Hi everybody and welcome to Dine with the Divine. I am your host, Ashley, and together we'll be exploring the magical, the mystical, the ancient, and everything in between. On today's episode we're going to talk about some Appalachian superstitions and a really creepy story.

[00:00:23] I \ hope you're having a great day . So today we have a great guest. We have Victoria Rashke. So Victoria has written four novels in the voice of the dead series, a campaign and a companion recipe and spell book renegade tea.

[00:00:38] The 2020.

[00:00:46] 23. She had, she and her partner founded 1000 Vault Press in 2020 to publish the book they like to see in the world and together they record and produce the weekly Witch Lit [00:01:00] podcast, which Victoria hosts. She received a master's degree in English and creative writing from the University of Tennessee and then an associate's degree in culinary arts because it seemed like a good idea at the time.

[00:01:10] I love that. How are you doing today, Victoria? I'm good.

[00:01:16] Victoria: I'm good. Yeah. We were talking about it before it was a headache day, the magic of a meal and some ibuprofen and caffeine and I feel a hundred percent better. So

[00:01:24] Ashl: absolutely. Absolutely. Okay, so so many questions. So the first question I have for you, so you host the Witchlit podcast where you interview lots of different authors and people.

[00:01:36] What made you want to, obviously you have a degree in English, which I'm sure is part of that and you're a writer. But what inspired you to even start your podcast in the first place? Two

[00:01:47] Victoria: things. One was I just wanted an excuse to meet a lot of

[00:01:51] Ashl: cool, witchy authors. And that's why I do this podcast.

[00:01:58] Exactly.

[00:01:59] Victoria: Yeah. The second one is [00:02:00] as a writer, like I find it really difficult to flog my books myself or flog me. So I had this idea that like I, I didn't really want to pay like, the overlords of the internet, Amazon and Facebook ad money. Unless I had to. Yeah. And I really wanted to get, to have something out there to promote my stuff, but really it was let's do this all boat rises thing.

[00:02:28] And let's just talk to other authors about their work. And, I had a really early mentor who called it advertising through

[00:02:35] Ashl: service,

[00:02:38] Victoria: marketing through service to the community. And I really liked that idea. I'm like, I don't talk about my books a lot on the podcast. I'm going to talk about writing like my writing process and stuff, but I don't really talk about my books very often.

[00:02:50] It's really about the person who's on the show, but it gets my name out there. And if people listen to the show and they like my books and they want to buy them, that's great. If not, then hopefully they'll buy [00:03:00] the guest book.

[00:03:00] Ashl: So yeah I recently have had a few authors on too, and it's I don't know, it's just cool.

[00:03:08] I, it's just so cool to see everybody's different perspective to like how people, look at things differently. Yeah, I love that. I love that. It's awesome. So you have a series called Voices of the Dead series.

[00:03:21] So can you give us like a little generalization, like what your books are about in that

[00:03:27] Victoria: series? Yeah. Yeah. So the, I guess the tagline for the books is what if you find out you're the chosen one when you're in your 40s. But it's also a little bit of a love letter to Slovenia. I lived there and I did a year abroad in college and just fell in love with it.

[00:03:43] And it was like a formative time for me to be there. And so I always wanted to write a book about my year there, but I don't really want to write memoir. So the book isn't really about me. The series is not about me, but it pulls on a lot of the stuff that happened in the time that I was there.

[00:03:57] And it's about this woman, Joe, who's [00:04:00] from Appalachia. And moves to Slovenia when she's a teenager, late teenager, 1920 and encounters with the magical ensue much later, but she has a tea house with friends, it's a found family book. And then one of her many lovers is murdered and that's the kickoff for the whole series.

[00:04:22] And Slovenia is. It's the crossroads of the Roman Empire. So there's a lot of layers of different kinds of worship from like early Slavic deities to Greek and Roman deities. Then, so all of that kind of, all that mythology and all that culture and all that stuff that's just been there, hundreds and thousands of years of history.

[00:04:44] Kind of bubbles up to the surface in magical ways. So

[00:04:47] Ashl: yeah, love it. Okay, that seems really cool. And then, all these different things about like the history of Slovenians who live there. And so obviously, and because of your podcast, you're obviously [00:05:00] into the kind of witchy dimension of things.

[00:05:03] So how did you start with like your practice or how did you get to a place where you're practicing this kind of spirituality is what I'm trying to say.

[00:05:14] Victoria: Yeah. I don't know. I was always like a weird kid. Like I was always interested in supernatural and paranormal stuff. Like I, my family had one of those time life mysteries of the unknown series.

[00:05:29] Yeah. Which I sometimes call my formative texts as a witch so I think I was always interested and then, but I never really knew, like in high school, I grew up in very rural East Tennessee, so I never really knew that there were people practicing magic. My family did a lot of things that I didn't really know were magic that are that no, that other people didn't do just kind of folk, folky stuff that they would never have called magic or witchcraft by the way.

[00:05:55] And when I got to college, I met other people who were interested in this and got involved [00:06:00] with a women's spirituality group that was heavily influenced by Diana Wickens. And that was where it started, but it wasn't the stop for me because that's not how I'm bent, so that's where it started. And then I, I've just been practicing for a long time by myself. And I, Spent a good chunk of probably my 30s when I was in the soup of just working and raising kids and stuff as an armchair witch, like I just read a ton of stuff and wasn't really practicing a lot.

[00:06:28] Hit my 40s, hit my stride and I was like, no, I'm back. I'm back. I'm doing this.

[00:06:34] Ashl: Yeah.

[00:06:36] Victoria: Awesome. I've always considered myself a witch. I just had a little spell there of not doing spells,

[00:06:40] Ashl: yeah, I think that makes sense. Life happens, right? So you just get busy or you just do things a little differently than maybe you did them before, but it doesn't take away the essence of who you are and what you want to do.

[00:06:53] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:06:54] Victoria: My son graduated from high school, freed up a lot of my brain space. I'm sure. I'm sure. I just was like... I'm still [00:07:00] parenting. Obviously, you don't stop parenting when your kid graduates high school, but you just, it's not an everyday thing like it was. Okay.

[00:07:09] Ashl: I love that and thanks for sharing that with us and we're gonna move now to our dish of the week because we have something that is going to take a minute to go through.

[00:07:19] So I'm like, Oh,

[00:07:20] Victoria: fun. I'm excited about the dish of the week. I was intrigued.

[00:07:25] Ashl: So yes, so we're going to do the dish of the week and let's see. So what I'm gonna just, I'm just gonna talk about the couple dishes. Like we talked about in your bio, your Voices of the Dead series, you made a complimentary companion cookbook to it because the main character owns A punk cafe.

[00:07:45] Am I saying that right? A punk

[00:07:46] Victoria: tea house. Yeah, a

[00:07:47] Ashl: punk tea house. Yes, which is a pretty cool idea. And I'm going to put a link to the book and everything's in the show notes. I'm not going to read every single every single recipe, but all the, [00:08:00] obviously all the recipes are in the book, but I'm just going to tell you four of my favorite things that I saw.

[00:08:05] And I was like, Oh, these are super, super cute. I really would eat all of these things. So number one, curry chicken salad sandwiches. I love curry. Okay, actually, Trader Joe's makes a curry chicken salad. It's pretty good. It's obviously not like a fresh one, but and chicken salad is not hard to make. So I'm just being lazy.

[00:08:25] Victoria: But Trader Joe's is there for a reason, though. Trader Joe's is for, the time suck of modern life. So no, no shame in Trader Joe's.

[00:08:33] Ashl: Thank you. Trader Joe's. Okay, this is a complete side note rant about how much I love Trader Joe's. Every once a month I go to Trader Joe's and I stock up on frozen food for all the times I don't want to cook.

[00:08:45] If I come home and I'm like, no, I'm not in the mood today or whatever happened. I'm like, I buy those. I keep them in the freezer. I use them throughout the month. And then every month I just restock. It's a good time. They also make those little cute quick meals. Trader [00:09:00] Joe's sponsored me. And they have a really good low calorie lemonade that I love.

[00:09:03] It's 40 calories per ounce. Whatever. I'm just saying all this to say that I absolutely love Draco's. It's one of the best things in the world to me. Anyway, so my other favorite thing, I was like, okay, if I'm going to this tea house, what am I having? I'm obviously having every single type of tea, so I'm not going to go over all the types of tea because I love tea.

[00:09:23] I'm like, really, I really love tea but I would, yes, I would love these burnt butter cupcakes with chocolate ganache frosting. I was like, yeah, I'll eat that. I'm not even really big into chocolate frosting, but this shit just sounds delicious. I was like, yeah.

[00:09:41] Victoria: Yeah, no, and I, chocolate cake is one of those things that I think is It always looks amazing and half the time it's disappointing.

[00:09:49] It doesn't really taste like chocolate. So these are like the cake is like yellow cake, but it's made with burnt butter. So you get all that toasty nuttiness from the burnt butter. [00:10:00] And then it has basically just chocolate ganache on top. So it's like a cupcake with a truffle with a little bit of salt.

[00:10:06] Ashl: Yeah. That's basically all I want in my life. So that's fine. And then the other thing I saw, which is like a soup, I guess it's called. Vegetarian Harira? Harira? Harira?

[00:10:19] Victoria: Yeah. Yeah. I don't speak any Arabic languages or Arabic dialects, so I'm probably saying it wrong too, but yeah, it's based on a North African soup.

[00:10:27] It's, I think, really commonly part of Ramadan. I think it's like either breakfast or like in the evening during Ramadan.

[00:10:36] Ashl: Okay. Yeah. One

[00:10:37] Victoria: of the characters is from Algeria. So that's why.

[00:10:40] Ashl: Okay. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Okay, but those are my three favorites that I was going through the book and reading all the recipes.

[00:10:49] Oh, and there was also a recipe for, Oh, like the cloverleaf rolls? The cloverleaf rolls. Yes, that's the ones I really liked. And I was like, I'm not going to write that down because I sound really basic, but [00:11:00] like those rolls sound good.

[00:11:03] Victoria: Those rolls are like Proustian. I, my sister made them when I was a kid. And that's how I know them. Like in the book, her grandmother made them when she was a kid. But my sister made them when I was a kid and she made them in muffin tins. And you make the bread dough and then you roll these three little balls and put them in the...

[00:11:17] Thing and they're just drenched in butter, right? They're like basic bread dinner rolls But there was just something so special about her taking the time to make them Pretty and yeah all of that and they're just like the care that people put into cooking and that's really what it Reminds me of and that connection to family cooking for you and family dinners and all of that So I don't think it's basic.

[00:11:38] I think it's really special

[00:11:40] Ashl: actually Okay, good because I was like these are roles and like as much as I love a role I'm like, I can't just say role

[00:11:51] Okay. And I also really liked, you have, oh, this spiced apple chutney. I really like that one. And [00:12:00] I'm not super into gazpacho because I'm not really into a cold soup. But this gazpacho sounds like something I could eat.

[00:12:07] I really love the shortbread. There's also, oh, and it, and everybody who's listening, she also in this book, Victoria puts like different kind of witchy recipes too for black salt, for candle Different witch bells. So it's not just food in here. There's a lot of really awesome. Oh, the other one smoked salmon tea sandwiches.

[00:12:26] That's the one I was really trying to remember. I was like, Oh, yeah, that sounds really good. Date fudge. Oh, the date fudge with walnuts and sesame. I would eat that like all over oh my gosh, there's really this cookbook is really cute. And there's so many good recipes in here. So thanks.

[00:12:43] Yeah, this is really good. Everybody. I'm going to say, I'm going to put this in the show notes please check it out. It's really adorable. It's called the renegade. It's the voices of the dead companion renegade tea cookbook. It's really cute. So those are some of our different Foods that are [00:13:00] dishes of the week for this week.

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[00:14:04] com. Thank you so much. Okay. This is what I was super excited about. So we have our little tea time section where we're going to do something a little educational, a little tidbit or whatnot. So you are from Eastern Tennessee, right? You mentioned that earlier. So I found this fun list of Appalachian superstitions.

[00:14:24] Oh, great. Yeah. So you can tell me. Okay. So first of all, when I was like doing this episode in the notes, I was like what are we going to talk about? And you mentioned that you grew up in Appalachia. So I was like, I want to have this.

[00:14:36] But I was like, I want to have a section of the show called what the fuck is going on in Appalachia. A lot. A lot. Because I always see TikToks of people like, don't go in the woods. If you hear your name, you don't hear it. Blah, blah, blah. I'm like, what is happening? There's all these strange creatures.

[00:14:55] And it's just I'm like, oh, no, I'm so nervous [00:15:00] Like Southern Appalachia is everybody okay? Because there's this wampus cat that I was reading and I got

[00:15:07] Victoria: scared. Oh, the wampus cat,

[00:15:08] Ashl: yeah. I read about it and I got nervous, so I just stopped reading about it. Because I was scared. Yeah, my

[00:15:15] Victoria: sister used to scare my little brother and I with the wampus cat.

[00:15:19] Ashl: The wampus cat sounds horrifying. I'm so frightened. I had to get off like Appalachian TikTok because everybody's scaring the shit out of me. I was like, I... I'm so nervous. But and then they go like a lot of people I've gone on like explanations like, Oh if you put together like Pangea and like a map of it, you can still see like back then, even then the Appalachian mountains were a thing.

[00:15:43] So they're like, one of the oldest . Mountain ranges in the world. So it makes sense that there's some weird shit going on there, but it's also horrifying. So yeah.

[00:15:53] Victoria: Yeah. I say we, we grew up with Wampus Cat and then we also had a family, this is the other thing about Appalachia [00:16:00] that I don't hear people talk about as much is that every holler has its own stories.

[00:16:04] Every family has their own stories. So there are a lot of like cross regional things that each family has. Family in each little neighborhood and holler and cranny in the woods. Has their own take on it or totally different stuff. And so we had Junior when I was growing up, who was like half man or half deer and lived in the woods and dragged a leg cuz he'd been shot and.

[00:16:25] We used to just be terrified as children that junior was going to get us when we had to go outside to go to the basement at night to do the laundry.

[00:16:32] Ashl: No, not junior coming for you in the night. Oh my God. Okay. So you just said a word that reminded me of something real random. So you just said holler, right?

[00:16:41] Okay. So the only reason I know what a holler is. It's because a long time ago, and I cannot remember what the name of this show was, there was a show on MTV, and it was about a group of teenagers from West Virginia, [00:17:00] and they all rode dirt bikes and very stereotypical things, that people assume about people from West Virginia yeah, and this one guy was explaining girl, Like the holler, he's this is my family's holler we all just live like we all live in like less than a, we all live within 300 feet of each other.

[00:17:23] And he's it's a holler because if I need someone, I literally just holler.

[00:17:28] Victoria: I've never thought about that. I always thought it was just like a slangy way to say hollow. But maybe he's right. Maybe it is holler in that way. And that's funny. I never thought about that.

[00:17:39] Ashl: Yeah, I don't know. That's what this random guy on this random MTV reality show said, probably in the year 2004, but it's

[00:17:48] Victoria: true.

[00:17:48] A lot of families are like that. My, my family. I moved a lot. My mom moved a lot when she was a kid. She's from East Tennessee, but her dad just went up and they lived in Panama city. They lived in Michigan, back and forth. One of those kind [00:18:00] of, they weren't in the military or anything.

[00:18:01] They were just really was following jobs because it was the depression, right? And then my dad's family is all from up north. So we really didn't live close to a lot of family initially, but we were like within driving distance always. So like a lot of my mom's side of the family. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:18:17] Ashl: Oh, okay.

[00:18:18] All right. Very neat. These are some of the Appalachian superstitions that I found. And there's quite a bit of them and I'm, I find some of them are very interesting. Okay, the first one here is never close a knife you didn't open. Yes. Or you'll have bad luck for seven years. I never

[00:18:37] Victoria: heard it in seven years, just that you would cut yourself

[00:18:39] Ashl: with it.

[00:18:40] Oh, okay.

[00:18:41] Victoria: That was more immediate bad luck, was my understanding of it. It was more immediate, not for seven years, but that was more immediate. Never close, like a pocket knife or something, never close it if you didn't open. Yeah.

[00:18:51] Ashl: Okay. So it's you'll have bad luck in, within the next few minutes if you do it.

[00:18:55] Yeah. Maybe, who knows. Probably it's from place to place, it's a different story, obviously. [00:19:00] I think it's also like

[00:19:00] Victoria: a thing about possession. It's not your knife.

[00:19:04] Ashl: Yeah. That makes sense. And I feel like in Appalachia, everyone needs a knife because it's rough out there and we're scared of the wampus cat.

[00:19:14] Exactly. The wampus cat's coming for you, so you need your knife. Don't take anyone's knife. Yeah. So anyway, oh, by the way, again, I didn't write this down, but we're talking about the wampus cat. The wampus cat is apparently some Cryptozoology like creature that is supposed to live like a Bigfoot kind of situation.

[00:19:33] Victoria: Yeah, and I think it's actually, I think a lot of it is from Cherokee folklore. There's some like shapeshifter stuff around it. So I think it's been adopted by like white Appalachian people, but I think it really is a lot older than that.

[00:19:46] Ashl: Okay. Yes. Okay. So that is the Wampus Cat, everybody, that we keep going on about it.

[00:19:51] Fear the wampus cat. So then also, okay. The number two here is keep a penny in your washer. Okay. That one I have never heard. [00:20:00] Yeah. I never. Okay. That's fine. Maybe it'll bring you money. I don't know. Always go in the same door you came in. Yes. Cause then

[00:20:09] Victoria: you don't want your spirit to get

[00:20:10] Ashl: separated. Oh, okay.

[00:20:13] Yeah. I don't want to do that. I'm nervous.

[00:20:15] Victoria: Except when someone dies, you don't take them through the front door if they die in the house. Because you don't want their spirit to find their way back. You take them out a window or a back

[00:20:24] Ashl: door. Yes, I have heard that. And I also In in Jamaica, there is a, and I'm sure it may be in other islands too, but I know in Jamaica, some people after if somebody dies in the house, when they for nine, I think it's nine days, I might be getting this completely wrong, hopefully I can find it.

[00:20:43] They, rearranges the furniture. Oh, interesting. Yeah, because they don't want the spirit to come back and think it's in the same place and stay. They want the spirit to be confused and leave so that person's spirit doesn't stay and goes.

[00:20:56] Victoria: It's so funny to me how so many places come up on the [00:21:00] same idea.

[00:21:00] They do it differently. I love that. I love that about like folk practice in general. So yeah.

[00:21:04] Ashl: Me too. That's what I love about it too. Cause it's I would say even And I'm going off topic, I'll get back. But even like creation stories, a lot of the time, if you look at a lot of places around the world, the creation stories are very similar.

[00:21:17] There's so many cultures in the world that have a flood story. It's very interesting. So you think okay. Are these stories things people made up? Possibly. But I also think there has to be part of the story that was maybe a little bit true. Because if everybody in this, in the world is at one point there was a giant flood and every, it was water everywhere.

[00:21:38] I'm like, at some point there probably was water everywhere. Maybe it was a million years ago, but there's probably a lot of water, like everybody's saying it was

[00:21:46] Victoria: there. I was gonna say just on off topic, do we really think we're gonna have two podcasters and not get off topic? Exactly.

[00:21:55] That's like par for the course,

[00:21:56] Ashl: right?

[00:21:59] Exactly.[00:22:00] Okay, this one I've heard eat black eyed peas or collard greens with, oh, I haven't heard this part, with hog jaw. Hog jaw,

[00:22:08] Victoria: yeah. What's hog jaw? It's like the jaw bacon on pig, like the...

[00:22:14] Ashl: Oh, that makes, duh, oh my god. Yeah. No, it's fine. I'm like,

[00:22:18] Victoria: oh my god. No, it's if you eat it on New Year's Day, because the...

[00:22:22] So the black eyed peas and the collards like are coins and folding money, like represent coins and folding money and the hogtail is like a rich dish. So it's basically to bring prosperity and luck in the new year. Okay. And again, that's one of those things that like all cultures have these new years.

[00:22:43] Yes. Traditions around happiness, health, prosperity in the new year, and that's just this other one. We didn't really do that a lot growing up. I took on the mantle of eating black eyed peas personally when I moved out all the time. We did sometimes, but my mom just wasn't as tickled for stuff.

[00:22:58] But. [00:23:00] Including, and I think I tell this, I'm actually writing a book right now, and I think I tell this story in the book, so this will be a tiny preview, is when I was married to my first husband, we were in Canada, and his friends invited us for New Year's Day, and they knew about this Southern thing about eating black eyed peas.

[00:23:16] And so they searched in British Columbia grocery stores, trying to find a can of black eyed peas and couldn't. So they got this can of mixed beans that I think had 10 black eyed peas in it. And we shared them. That was our New Year's day black eyed peas.

[00:23:28] Ashl: So that was very thoughtful.

[00:23:30] Victoria: Yeah. Yeah. They did like eggs Benedict and barbecued oysters for New Year's day, which.

[00:23:37] Sounds pretty good,

[00:23:37] Ashl: too. Yeah, that also sounds delicious. Okay. Those are some nice friends. Okay, I've heard this one. Don't wash clothes on New Year's Day or you'll, this part I don't know, or you'll wash a family member out. I've heard

[00:23:49] Victoria: like your luck for the year or your luck for the year, don't take anything out of the house and don't wash on New Year's Day.

[00:23:56] Also, don't do stuff on New Year's Day you don't want to do all year.

[00:23:59] Ashl: [00:24:00] Yeah, I've heard that too. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Don't do any canning or gardening on your period. Okay. Okay.

[00:24:09] Victoria: So I have heard this in my own family. Like occasionally people would say you shouldn't do that because Something, it goes back to that women or people who've been straight or unclean when they're bleeding, which is bullshit.

[00:24:22] Sorry.

[00:24:22] Ashl: Yes. I can curse on your show. You absolutely can say whatever you want. Fuck. But

[00:24:27] Victoria: But yeah, it's I think it goes back to that. So there's some of that about it and that the if you can't When you're on your period, then either it wouldn't set or everything would spoil, that kind of which is just misogynistic garbage.

[00:24:44] So yeah, I'm not I don't truck with that

[00:24:46] Ashl: one. Yeah, I don't Yeah, that one's a little silly, but that's okay. So then we have Yeah, and there's a lot of places around the world that do that with the period thing. They're like, oh, you're in your period, you should not [00:25:00] go anywhere and all that kind of stuff.

[00:25:01] But whatever, we don't believe that. Plant your crops under a full moon. I feel like I've heard that one

[00:25:06] Victoria: before. Yeah, I think there's a lot of moon. Planting and harvesting and cutting your hair and there's a lot of stuff with the

[00:25:14] Ashl: moon. Yeah, I've heard yeah Cut your hair only like under a full moon because then your hair will grow fuller something like that.

[00:25:22] I've heard that Let's see. Never. Okay, never give a set of knives as a gift And if you give them to newlyweds, it will cut their

[00:25:33] Victoria: love. Yes So there's a way to mitigate that though. Okay. Is that with the knives, you give a penny and then they give it back to you to buy them from you. Oh. So they're buying the knives from you.

[00:25:45] They weren't a gift. And because the other thing is that either the recipient will cut themselves with the knives or you'll cut your relationship from them or for newlyweds, you'll cut their love between each other. So you give a penny. With it and they buy them back for [00:26:00] me. They buy them for me. Okay, that's cute.

[00:26:02] I love it Yeah okay weirdly I used to work at Williams Sonoma the fancy cookery store. Yeah And when we wrapped knives for wedding gifts We would we had a little card that had a penny glued to it that we would put in so even Williams Sonoma Thought it was a thing. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's cute.

[00:26:20] Okay.

[00:26:22] Ashl: I love that Never I don't get that. No, this one's generic. There's a black cat one. We're not that's wrong. Yeah, everyone knows that If you drop, oh if you drop your fork It means a woman is coming to visit and if you drop a knife a man is coming to visit And if you drop both a non binary person is coming to this right?

[00:26:44] Victoria: Okay. Yeah. I like that. I like the update.

[00:26:47] Ashl: That's my own personal update. I like the update a lot. But what if a non binary person's coming to my house? What if

[00:26:52] Victoria: a non binary person's coming? Yeah. Or you drop a spoon. Or a spork. Yeah. I don't know. It's who knows? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:26:58] I've heard that one not in my own [00:27:00] family so much, but I have heard that one before.

[00:27:02] Ashl: Okay. Okay. Run a chicken over your baby to keep it from getting chicken pox. That one I have never

[00:27:11] Victoria: heard. Yeah, okay. If it works, that's great, but I doubt it.

[00:27:16] Ashl: Probably doesn't work, but would it be hilarious to watch a chicken run over a baby as long as the baby doesn't get hurt and the chicken isn't hurt?

[00:27:23] Yes, I would laugh.

[00:27:24] Victoria: Yes, that would be amazing. Yeah, like I, I had chicken pox in the time before the chicken pox vaccine. Same. And we got him on Halloween. And then I gave them to my brother. It was awful. I would say if you could prevent them do, cause they're not any fun.

[00:27:39] Ashl: No, I had chicken pox too.

[00:27:41] I never got vaccinated. I was, I didn't have vaccines when I was that young, but I remember getting chicken pox and like staying home and my dad was with me and he just like every couple hours, lathered that pink calamine lotion on me and I laid. Like in a [00:28:00] vest and shorts on my couch all day watching Sesame Street.

[00:28:03] I think I was four and my friends would be like, can you come out? I'm like, no guys, I'm sick. Yeah. I

[00:28:10] Victoria: can't come out, sorry. Oh, chain pucks are the worst. Plus itching. It's like itching.

[00:28:14] Ashl: It's just so itchy. And

[00:28:16] Victoria: it's one of the few times I remember being sick when I was like, I was sick all the time as a kid.

[00:28:20] I was just sick all the time. Chickenpox. I remember vividly.

[00:28:24] Ashl: Yeah. And they just suck. I'm like, you can't do anything to make it stop until it stops. It's annoying. Don't let a pregnant woman see a dead person or the birth. Or the baby will have a birthmark.

[00:28:38] Victoria: I haven't heard it exactly like that. It's just that if a trauma happens to a pregnant person that can be where the birthmark is on the baby.

[00:28:46] Like I haven't heard that but not a dead body specifically but if something happens to you while you're pregnant then that can be a birthmark on the baby.

[00:28:54] Ashl: Yes and I've also just like I don't know why but like in my family I know it's [00:29:00] Don't let a pregnant woman at a funeral or around any death or dying or anything like that no pregnant woman should be around anybody who like in general probably it would came from like you're pregnant You should be around sick people.

[00:29:13] Yeah, that makes sense But also it's do not let a pregnant woman near a dead body cuz like we fear for the baby's life I don't know.

[00:29:20] Victoria: It's like I don't really know and I wonder if there's like some Sense of that, like you said, like contagion or if there's some. Like other reason like I don't know.

[00:29:31] I've noticed that was funny because it's both ends of the cycle, right? Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. There's a lot of Luminality there. So maybe it's just thought to not be a good idea. I don't know. Yeah,

[00:29:42] Ashl: who knows. I don't know Where okay this one and I don't know if you know what this is I don't know where a Buckeye in your bra to ward off rheumatism.

[00:29:52] Do you know what a Buckeye

[00:29:53] Victoria: is? yeah, it's like a I kind of it's like a Chestnut, but they can't eat them. It's a [00:30:00] type of tree. Oh. And the Buckeyes you probably, I don't know they're more common, I think, on the western side of the Appalachians, I'm not sure. I would not swear to that. I don't know the range of the American Buckeye, but I think there's a lot of stuff around Buckeyes.

[00:30:16] It's not as, they're not as common where I grew up, but I think there's a lot of stuff around them. Oh,

[00:30:21] Ashl: okay. Hang a horseshoe upside down to keep good luck from running out. Okay. I, I've always seen, I don't under, I never knew what horseshoes were. I always heard horseshoes are like good luck symbols.

[00:30:36] But, and I have seen people who put horseshoes like In their house like I was like a decor door. Yeah over the door, but I never knew why I just thought they must really like horses like and this person is really into

[00:30:50] Victoria: horses. And I think there's like a lot of back and forth about which way you're supposed to hang the horseshoe.

[00:30:56] Yeah, but I've always heard that you should hang it.[00:31:00] So it's a U shape, so it's holding the luck rather than a hill. I guess I don't know how to describe what I want to say. Upside down U, but yeah, and then the luck would run out, right? That's

[00:31:11] Ashl: how I've always heard it. Something like that.

[00:31:14] Okay. Hold your breath. I've heard this one. Hold your breath when you pass the cemetery or you'll be the next to die. You don't need to do that. Don't hold your breath. Yeah,

[00:31:22] Victoria: I don't think we, we always held our breath when we were kids, but it. I don't think it was that we were the next to die. It was more like, and I remember somebody in my family telling me to do this, but I don't remember who.

[00:31:32] But it was more like, so that you didn't breathe in the spirits. Yeah. Yeah. So it was more like a worry about being possessed than dying.

[00:31:39] Ashl: Yeah. That's the way I had heard it, honestly. Not like you're going to die, but it was just like the spirits are everywhere. So just don't let them enter your body kind of

[00:31:48] Victoria: situation.

[00:31:49] How do you go to a funeral? A graveside funeral. That's difficult. Yeah. Can't hold your breath the whole time. Is it only when you're in a car that you need to be concerned?

[00:31:58] Ashl: Because then you'll pass [00:32:00] out and now you're you're, now you're taking attention away from the main character.

[00:32:03] Yeah.

[00:32:04] Victoria: Yeah. It's not

[00:32:04] Ashl: cool. Not cool. Don't be the star of somebody else's funeral. That's not cool at all. Yeah,

[00:32:11] Victoria: you'll get to be the star yourself someday.

[00:32:13] Ashl: Don't worry about it. You'll get your turn. Don't worry. Hold your feet up when you're crossing a railroad track or you'll lose your boyfriend.

[00:32:25] Victoria: I have heard that hold your feet up.

[00:32:26] But I don't think that was why we did it. I think it was like someone told me to do it when I was a kid. And I just always did it. But I don't know why we did

[00:32:33] Ashl: it. Specifically, it says you will lose your boyfriend. So if you're somebody who dates men, don't do this. You have you have to do it, actually.

[00:32:41] You'll lose your boyfriend. There you go. This is not great. If you're walking with someone, you have to go on the same side of a post or obstacle. Wait, if you're walking with someone, you have to go on the same side of a post or obstacle, or it will break your friendship. Oh, I see what you're

[00:32:59] Victoria: saying. [00:33:00] Oh, so don't walk on either side of a tree or something.

[00:33:02] Yes, okay. That, that one's a new one for me. I've never

[00:33:05] Ashl: heard that. Alright, that's fine. Don't wash your clothes on Sunday. I feel like I've heard something similar to that. If your nose is itching, it means company is coming. Yeah. Okay. I've heard that one. Yeah. All right. Open this window when someone dies and cover the mirror so that their soul can leave.

[00:33:25] I've heard that. And that Yeah,

[00:33:26] Victoria: I think that's very Victorian too. I think that may have come over from England because I think that was also done in the old country as it

[00:33:33] Ashl: were. Probably. And also Victorians were really into mirrors. Victorians are weird people. Yeah. Yeah. That's a weird time. Also that's very I know like Jewish people do that during like when they sit Shiva, they cover all the mirrors.

[00:33:48] So that's, and they also open the windows to let the soul out and stuff like that. Hang a mirror by the door to protect it. Against evil. Okay. Oh, I've [00:34:00] heard this one. I heard this on again Appalachian tick tock, which I have to stop going on because I scare myself all night Never leave a rocking chair rocking or you will invite the spirits.

[00:34:10] Victoria: Oh, yeah that one I am familiar with Yeah, don't let a rocking chair walk by itself. Yeah, I'm

[00:34:15] Ashl: not trying to invite any spirits Especially if I'm

[00:34:17] Victoria: hanging out in Appalachia, I will tell you if you have cats though, it's gonna happen

[00:34:23] Ashl: Cats are like I don't I'm not a cat person But everyone I know is, so I have to deal with everyone else's cats.

[00:34:32] And cats are the most, they're super smart, but they're also so mischievous and Just always, I feel like they're always just trying to mess something up, start drama. Wherever they go, they're like, how can we start a problem?

[00:34:47] Victoria: Yes, my theory is that cats were worshipped and because of that they think that they should have your undivided attention all the time.

[00:34:56] So when you don't pay them attention, then they get into stuff. Yes. So you [00:35:00] pay attention because even bad attention is attention. Hello?

[00:35:04] Ashl: That's what I'm trying to say. . So that is our Appalachian superstitions. Good time. Fun by all. It was fun. Yeah, it was a good time. And I learned

[00:35:12] Victoria: new ones. That's exciting,

[00:35:14] Ashl: isn't it?

[00:35:15] So now we're gonna tell a story. Now I don't know how I came to the conclusion that I was gonna tell this story, but this is a. Pretty messed up fairytale. And I love a messed up fairytale and I haven't done one of these yet. And I was like I'm with a writer. I'm with somebody who holds hosts a podcast about writing and literature and magic.

[00:35:39] So that's what we're going to do today. Let's do

[00:35:41] Victoria: it. I'm excited. Okay. Yes.

[00:35:43] Ashl: We're going to tell a story all about magic and just some creepy stuff. I guess I think Trigger warning for like dismemberment and some accidental cannibalism. This is quite the story. Okay. [00:36:00] Let's do it. My dark

[00:36:02] Victoria: little Scorpio heart

[00:36:03] Ashl: is excited.

[00:36:05] Exactly. All right. So this story is from, the classic Grimm's Fairy Tales. Grimm's and his brother, they were walking around the Black Forest and asking people about their tales. So this is what happened. So this story is called The Juniper Tree. If you've never heard it, it's quite a doozy.

[00:36:25] So here we go. So a long time ago, there was this guy and his wife really wanted a baby. So one day she was outside, and she's walking around under the juniper tree, and she's Man, I would love to have a baby. And she was cutting an apple, because I guess she was hungry and wanted to eat an apple.

[00:36:42] So she cut herself. And she bled a little bit and she's Oh shit, I'm bleeding. But it was fine. So this story is random in some parts, but it was fine. We were

[00:36:55] Victoria: at blood sacrifice already, so it's going to get good. [00:37:00]

[00:37:00] Ashl: I never even thought of that. So she bled a little bit, everything was fine, and then she, like, all of a sudden, she got really excited, and she's I feel like I am gonna have a baby.

[00:37:12] I feel like I'm manifesting this for myself. So we're like, yes, queen, keep manifesting. So then, nine months goes by, and She's seeing the juniper tree get green and she's seeing the seasons go by. She's also seeing herself get a little bigger and she's Oh crap, I'm pregnant. I'm so excited. But meanwhile, though, while she was pregnant, she was also getting sick.

[00:37:33] So she was sick. And then when she had her baby, she told her husband, she's husband, I think I'm actually going to die. And I'm really nervous. And he's that's okay. Yeah. I'm going to be super sad. That's okay.

[00:37:49] He definitely didn't say that's okay. That's just me being like, that's okay. He definitely was super upset about it. And then she died and it was so [00:38:00] sad. So she died. Her husband was really sad. He mourned. He was taking care of his baby, but he loved his baby And he's like it's gonna be fine. I'm gonna make it through this He did a lot of healing and a lot of inner grief work And then he came out the other side and he was like, okay I think I'm ready to get back in that dating pool so he starts dating and he meets a lady and he really likes her and He decides to marry her.

[00:38:26] So he marries this new his second wife and they have a baby To and this baby girl's name is Marjorie, so now we're

[00:38:33] Victoria: in

[00:38:33] Ashl: wicked stepmother territory. Here we go. We've got blood

[00:38:37] Victoria: sacrifice. Wicked stepmother. This is like on course

[00:38:41] Ashl: classic. Okay, classic. Wicked stepmother. Yeah, so she okay. So the wicked.

[00:38:46] Exactly. Now you see why she's wicked. The stepmom loved her baby so so much, but did not like little boy who was The original the first wife's baby. She's man, if I could just get rid of this little [00:39:00] boy, like my life would be sweet. I would have all the money for me and my daughter and this little boy would be out of our hair.

[00:39:07] So she's thinking all these evil thoughts, but whatever. So one day the dad went to work. And the little boy went to like school or something and she's home with her daughter and her daughter's hey, mom, can I have an apple? And she's yeah, sure. But then the mom gets this terrible idea, okay?

[00:39:25] So she's yeah, you can have an apple, but you can't have one until your brother comes home. And the little girl's okay, fine, whatever. Day goes on, little brother comes home from school, and... His mom is do you want an apple? And he's yeah, that'd be great. So she opens this chest full of apples.

[00:39:41] And she's oh, you can get one right in there. I have a whole bunch of apples in this chest. And he's oh, sweet. So he reaches in to get the apple and she slams the chest down on his head. And his head tumbles off. It says in the story, it tumbles off like one of the apples. Okay. Now little boy is dead [00:40:00] and has no head.

[00:40:00] And this sucks. Now the mom is Oh shit, I didn't think past killing this kid. She's

[00:40:07] Victoria: Of course not.

[00:40:10] Ashl: She's evil,

[00:40:11] Victoria: and she doesn't plan.

[00:40:13] Ashl: She's not a planner. She realized in this moment, she did not think this out very well. Cause she's oh shit. My kid is in the house. My husband's about to come home from work, and his son's dead, so how am I gonna explain this?

[00:40:27] So what she does is, she takes a scarf, she puts on the boy's head by herself, and then puts an apple in his hand and lays him against the truck. I don't know why she did this part, but she goes and tells her daughter Oh, go ask your brother for an apple. I don't know what she was doing, but she did.

[00:40:50] And the little girl's Traumatizing her

[00:40:51] Victoria: other child.

[00:40:52] Ashl: Grief. Oh, actually, you'll see why. Actually, I forgot. This is why. Go ask your brother for an apple. See, this [00:41:00] shows how awful she is. Even more. And so she does. The little girl's Hey bro, can I have an apple? And he doesn't say anything. And she's bro.

[00:41:07] Bro, you know how little sisters could be. Bro. She's probably just yelling at him. He doesn't answer and all of a sudden she's pushes him, cause she's a little kid. She's hey, you're not listening to me. His head tumbles off. She screams oh my god. And then in comes the mom.

[00:41:24] I've broken my brother. Yes, exactly. Then in comes the mom and she's what did you do? She's I don't know what I did. Oh my god. And she's Marjorie, you killed your brother. And Marjorie is... Losing it. She's so upset. Like she cannot believe what she's done. She feels terrible. The mom's don't worry.

[00:41:40] I'm gonna fix it We're gonna take his whole body and I'm gonna handle this. What does his mom do? She cuts him up and she puts him in a soup. Okay in a stew like you do. Like I Know like I don't know why she thought this was like The smartest plan, but she cuts him in the [00:42:00] woods, right? Come on.

[00:42:00] Yeah, you could just bury him, but okay. She cuts him up and puts him in the soup. So then dad comes home and he's Hey fam hey wife, hey Marjorie. And he's but where's my son? And she's oh he came home. Funny that you ask, right? He came home and he's I've got to go see my uncle.

[00:42:24] And the dad is he went to go see his uncle, and she's yep, that's what he did, and that's what he said, and that's where he is. And she's and the dad is I know, the dad is so he left, and he didn't say anything to me about going, he didn't say bye. He wasn't going to wait till I got home.

[00:42:40] He wasn't going to tell me where he was going to go. This is a little boy. This is not a grown man. And the wife's nope. He was insistent. I let him go by himself. I let a probably 10 year old boy go through the woods by himself. Yes, I did. And so the dad was [00:43:00] like upset because he's what is happening?

[00:43:02] She's it's fine. It's totally fine. Let's just eat dinner. I'm sure he'll be back soon. She serves, everybody's eating the soup. The dad eats it. He's damn, the soup is good. I'm really enjoying this soup. Yes, he was scarfing it down. And the little girl is like sitting there, not looking okay. And the dad's like, Marjorie, what's good?

[00:43:25] What's wrong? And she just is hysterical. Like Marjorie is hysterical because she knows what's going on. And she feels terrible. The

[00:43:31] Victoria: only smart person in the house clearly

[00:43:33] Ashl: is Marjorie. Marjorie's the only good the dad doesn't know, but Marjorie's the way better person than her mother. She's I, and Marjorie's just I can't even explain to you what's going on but I just have to tell you I'm sad.

[00:43:47] And the dad's okay, Marjorie, and she's I miss my brother. And he's okay I miss him too everything's gonna be fine. Meanwhile, I forgot to tell you guys, oh, after dinner. [00:44:00] Oh, part of what happened too is there was bones in the soup and the dad would eat the bones and then I guess they would put them on the floor because this was like they didn't have a garbage can at this point.

[00:44:08] Actually, he put them on the floor and then after dinner, the mom took the bones and she buried them in a handkerchief under the juniper tree. Okay, so now our friend Yeah, which is stupid because our okay. The other thing too is the mom who died his mom. She's also buried under the juniper tree. So they're both buried under the juniper tree now.

[00:44:30] And this is probably not a good idea for stepmom. But this is what happened. Okay, so now she after she buried it under the juniper tree, it started to do weird shits, right? So here in the book, it says a, it started clapping. It's okay. The different branches looked like they were clapping together.

[00:44:51] And a cloud rose from the tree. And then in the cloud was a fire. And then in the fire came out a bird. [00:45:00] Like a really beautiful bird. Okay, this is wild. So everyone's what the hell is going on? But Marjorie sees all this. And Marjorie all of a sudden felt really happy. She didn't know why, but she's Oh my god, it's like my brother is like flying away.

[00:45:13] Marjorie is Oh my God I feel better about this, even though this is still a crime what happened. Even

[00:45:19] Victoria: though murder has been committed and cannibalism. I'm feeling a little better here because there was

[00:45:23] Ashl: a firebird There was a bird that came out of a fire that came out of a cloud that came out of a tree So she's like I feel happy So then the bird right now We're focusing on the bird the family's at home the birds flying the bird flies to a goldsmith's house and begins to sing a song And this is the song That the bird sings the bird says, I don't know the tune, but I'm just going to read the words the bird said, it was my mother who murdered me.

[00:45:51] It was my father who ate me. It was my sister Marjorie who all my bones in pieces found them in a handkerchief. She bound [00:46:00] and laid them under the juniper tree. Kiewit, I cry. What a beautiful bird I am. All right. This is the part that I thought was almost funny because in this story in multiple times You're gonna see this bird is singing this song and all anybody can say is that bird is beautiful Look at that beautiful bird singing.

[00:46:21] I'm like is nobody listening to the words

[00:46:24] Victoria: Or that a bird is singing words Yeah,

[00:46:29] Ashl: everyone's just Oh, that beautiful bird and I'm like, yeah, but you guys he's singing. It's a beautiful bird that's singing about murder and you can understand it is nobody intrigued by that part.

[00:46:40] Victoria: Early German murder ballads.

[00:46:43] Ashl: Exactly. Oh my god. So it's hilarious. So then the goldsmith so the goldsmith hears this song, and the goldsmith's Oh, hold on, bird. Stay here. I have to go get my wife. So he goes and gets his wife and he's Wife, listen to the bird. And the [00:47:00] bird is I don't sing twice for nothing. And the goldsmith is Pardon?

[00:47:05] And he's I don't sing twice. You have to give me something. And the goldsmith is Oh okay. Here's a gold chain. And he's Great. So the bird takes the gold chain and sings again for the wife of the goldsmith and then flies away Okay, one thing down. He's got a gold chain Next he goes to a shoemaker and he perches on the shoemaker's roof and he starts singing.

[00:47:32] He sings the same song It was my father, it was my mother who murdered me. It was my father who ate me. It was my sister Marjorie, who all my bones and pieces found. Them in a handkerchief she bound, and laid them under the juniper tree. Kiewit, I cry. Oh, what a beautiful bird I am. So the shoemaker...

[00:47:50] Did the same thing as the goldsmith he heard and was like, Oh my God, what a beautiful song that this bird is singing. I'm completely ignoring that. This bird is saying that [00:48:00] his mom murdered him. It's not a problem. So the shoemaker is hold on. I have to go get my wife. So he goes and gets his wife and he's wife, listen to the bird.

[00:48:09] And the bird is once again, I sing this song one time, every time I need something, some payment. And the shoemaker is I don't really have a lot. But I can give you a piece of shoes, like not piece of shoes. What am I talking about? I can give you a pair of shoes. Jesus Christ.

[00:48:27] Victoria: It's a bird.

[00:48:27] So a piece of a shoe is probably more understandable than a pair

[00:48:31] Ashl: of shoes. Yeah, but apparently this bird is also super strong. So it just carries the shoes and a gold chain and everything. Now the bird sang again for the wife and flew away again. Okay, now he went to a... Mill, like to a Miller's place where there's a millstone.

[00:48:55] , I don't know exactly know what a millstone looks like, but I guess there's a bunch of mill it's a big [00:49:00] heavy stone. Just know that. They're usually like

[00:49:02] Victoria: big brown stones with a hole in the middle, like the grind. Oh, okay. Against each other to grind the

[00:49:07] Ashl: wheat. Oh, okay. Okay. So that makes sense for the rest of this.

[00:49:11] , he goes to this mill and there's a bunch of dudes working in the mill. And what does he do? The same thing. He starts singing different lyrics to the song, and with every line that he sings of the song, more workers are stopping to listen and be like, What's going on here? What happened? So they're like, Oh, what a beautiful song.

[00:49:32] And then one of the birds was like, Oh. Hold on. Can you? No, not one of the birds. One of the workers was like, can you please sing that song again? We all want to listen to you sing and a bird was like once again, you're going to have to give me something. I don't just sing around for free and they were like okay.

[00:49:47] And they're looking around and he's the bird's I actually want that millstone. And they're like, you're a bird. He's I don't care.

[00:49:56] Victoria: What are you going to do with the millstone? And he's

[00:49:58] Ashl: Don't worry about it. [00:50:00] I would like that millstone, please. And they were like, okay. So they're like, how do you want to carry this?

[00:50:06] And the bird was like, I'm gonna put it around my neck. And then carry it that way. And they're like, okay. So they tie a string around the millstone. Tie a string around his neck. And over they go. And he sings the song again, and then when he was done, he spread his wings and he starts to fly away. Now, where does he go?

[00:50:29] He flies around his neck. With a millstone, a pair of shoes, and a gold chain. This guy is a pimp or something. This is a pimp bird. With new shoes, a gold chain, and a random stone in his pocket. Okay the... The bird goes back to... It's house to the house of the scene of the crime, actually, the bird goes back to the scene of the crime and is staying outside the house of the dad and the mom and Marjorie [00:51:00] and start singing it song about, let me remind you, it was like it was a mother.

[00:51:05] It was my mother who murdered me. It was my father who ate me. It was my sister Marjorie who all my bones in pieces found them in a handkerchief. She bound and laid

[00:51:22] Okay, once again, nobody's paying attention to the lyrics. Papa over here is damn, I love that bird. He's I feel so good right now. He's I feel so happy. I feel so good about this bird. And Marjorie too. Marjorie's I love that bird. Actually. Who was paying attention to the lyrics?

[00:51:41] Stepmama. Stepmom was like, Oh shit, I'm in trouble now. I'm in trouble. This bird knows what I did. So now this time the bird didn't ask for money. It just kept singing. And stepmom was like, please get that bird to shut the hell up. And the dad is like, why this [00:52:00] bird is amazing and beautiful. And he's I feel like I know this bird.

[00:52:04] And she's what? She's I just feel like I know this bird. The bird then flies in the house and puts around puts the gold chain on the dad's neck. And she's he's oh my god, thanks bird. And the bird lays a pair of shoes at Marjorie's feet, so she has a new pair of shoes. And she's oh my god, thanks bird, this is great.

[00:52:26] So then the wife, she gets so upset about this bird and how much she hates this bird. She goes outside and she tries to kill the bird. Okay, and she's like swatting at the bird and then the bird takes off takes the stone Snips like the string it's hanging from its neck and it falls on the wife and splats her dead.

[00:52:48] Okay, she's right outside the house so Forgive me, but I forget how The bird somehow sets a fire The whole house turns into smoke and the bird runs [00:53:00] into the fire Marjorie and dad are outside now, so they're safe They're not dying, but their house is on fire that kind of stuff So mom is dead the house is on fire.

[00:53:10] Everyone's traumatized But then out of the smoke and dust and fire comes the original little boy And he's hey guys and the dad's oh my god. Thank god. You're here. I'm so glad you're safe and They all lived happily ever after. Not the stepmom because she's dead. Yeah, she's dead. Yeah. But Margie...

[00:53:32] Dead moms

[00:53:33] Victoria: all around. Magical tree boy gets his revenge and comes back because he was magical to start with.

[00:53:43] Ashl: Magical tree boy is okay. He's fine. And he has been resurrected. He is a phoenix literally who rise from the ashes, but as a boy and not a bird anymore. So that is the juniper tree. One of the weirdest fairy tales that [00:54:00] I know.

[00:54:01] Yeah,

[00:54:01] Victoria: I also I'm also waiting for like the wheel of morality. What is the moral of this story? Perhaps don't kill your stepchildren is a good place to start. Watch yourself under juniper trees. There's just. There's some stuff to learn here. I think

[00:54:14] Ashl: there's like I feel like in Grimm's fairy tales and also I was talking about this in an episode to like Arabian Nights.

[00:54:23] There's no like morality. Tale. It's just this is what happened. It's fucking weird and you're

[00:54:29] Victoria: like, okay, dead moms, a whole lot of dead mom, a

[00:54:32] Ashl: lot of dead moms, like everybody. And I guess because I, one time I was like researching this because I was like, why is all the, why are all these moms dead? And I guess they were like there was a high mortality rate back then.

[00:54:43] And like women and because people, these stories come from typically like the more rural areas of Germany when the Grimms were born. Looking for this story. Yeah. Yeah. So like in these areas, number one, if some if [00:55:00] the rate of death is like a lot higher in like the 17 and 1800s, right? And then number two, if you're a woman, and you're a little older, maybe you have kids already, it's good to get a husband because you probably don't have a ton of wealth opportunities or ways to make money.

[00:55:17] And then there was always not a lot to eat. So it's if you already had to raise somebody else's kids, and your kids and be with your husband, and your food was sparse, you're probably thinking I have to save myself and like my biological children because you feel more indebted to them. So yeah, I guess that's

[00:55:35] Victoria: part of what they say.

[00:55:36] And I would imagine I don't know I don't know the German Inheritance laws. In England there was primogenitor, so like the oldest male got everything. So I don't like in, in German inheritance, if like the firstborn children probably would have inherited and the. Stepchildren or later born children might not have to, so there's, when you're talking about murder, there's always money and power involved,

[00:55:58] Ashl: right?

[00:55:59] [00:56:00] Exactly. And we're definitely going to have to do more Grimm's Fairy Tales. There's so much murder in Grimm's Fairy Tales.

[00:56:08] Victoria: I always find it amazing that they were so aptly named the Grimm Brothers because

[00:56:12] Ashl: the stories are fucked. And I know most people know this now, but it's like, The fairy tales were never meant for kids.

[00:56:22] They were adult entertainment. So that's why they're so weird. And there's a lot of weird There's even weird sex stuff. There's a lot of just gross weird Even Blackbeard is a weird story. He just kills all his wives. That's weird. There's so many weird Yeah. Yeah, cause it was meant to be, stuff that you said around, when everyone's finished dinner what are we gonna do till we go to bed?

[00:56:44] We're gonna tell creepy ass stories. We didn't have television.

[00:56:48] Victoria: So let's tell those stories. I think that's part of, honestly, I think that's why Appalachia is like it is too, because parts of Appalachia weren't electrified until the forties. Yeah. So they [00:57:00] got electricity a lot later, so there wasn't television.

[00:57:02] So those stories stayed alive a lot longer because they could tell them.

[00:57:06] Ashl: Yes. And we talked about a little bit about granny women in a different episode, and we were just talking about Appalachia, especially when the Scots Irish people came, and, all these different people.

[00:57:19] Yeah, Germans too, weirdly. Yeah, Germans, like, all these different groups of people, when they showed up it's, it wasn't an easy terrain to live in. Yeah. A lot of them didn't a lot of people didn't have a lot of money and in the case of the granny women we talked about like a lot of that culture of these women kind of healers started because number one, a lot of doctors wouldn't make it all the way out there like in these mountainous areas and it costs a lot of money for these doctors to come and a lot of people didn't have that.

[00:57:50] And I'm just saying all that to say that it wasn't an easy life. So even when you hear, I feel and on another podcast, we also talked about murder ballads a [00:58:00] little bit, but it's you're like, damn, why are these people talking about death? Because life was not easy and death was probably like we might die tomorrow.

[00:58:08] So it's I

[00:58:11] Victoria: was reading this article today about. Like country music, the state of country music right now, I'm not like a big country music fan, but I do Americana and like old country music and murder ballads were so in that and like these kind of poppy country songs of women who like kill their bad boyfriends and kill their husbands.

[00:58:28] The chicks Earl song and all that stuff. Those are basically reverse murder ballads. Like it's the same tradition, right? Like in murder ballads, it's almost always women who are killed because Misogyny, but , the shame about Earl, or, I can't even remember what the name of the song is, but like that those Oh, I know what you're talking The Earl song.

[00:58:48] Yeah. Like those newer country music songs with women, country singers singing about murdering bad boyfriends or whatever. Or reverse murder valids. Yes. Like they're still with us in this other way

[00:58:59] Ashl: [00:59:00] yes. One of my favorite songs what the hell is this song called? Oh, there's a song by the Civil Wars called Oh Henry, and the whole song is literally her basically threatening to kill her husband if he cheats on her, but it's an amazing song.

[00:59:19] Victoria: I love that song. Yeah, I know, some of them are great I don't know, if you're a Nick Cave fan he has a whole album of murder ballads. Oh. They're eerie and dark and it's Nick Cave, so yeah, but it's really, it's a great album and a lot of them are more like the English and Irish ones, but a lot of those made it to the U.

[00:59:39] S. to Appalachia and just got the names changed and places changed. There's actually a really good one called Knoxville Girl that Dolly Parton recorded. It's a really good one.

[00:59:47] Ashl: I gotta check that. I don't, Nick Cave, you said? Okay, I gotta check him out. I don't really know, but I like always say I don't really like country music, like at least modern country music, but I like folk music.

[00:59:58] Like I love, [01:00:00] and I love listening to the words because you're like, damn, like this is rough. People are like

[01:00:06] Victoria: telling a story. Yeah, I think so much of that, like early, early country music, what was, basically a blend of, especially the Appalachia in the South was a blend of African music that from the people who had been enslaved Mexican guitar, because that kind of come up from South America.

[01:00:25] And then the ballad tradition from Ireland and England and Western Europe all meshed. Yeah. And then when they started cutting records and they split it apart, and there was like hillbilly country music and there was race records is what they called them that kind of turned into R and B and rock and roll.

[01:00:42] And then country music became. What it did, but I think a lot of people who are doing Americana now are back to the roots of this music and understand like the origins of a lot of this music and I know it's just far more interesting to me than the top 40 stuff, the top 40. I've never been a top 40 country music [01:01:00] person.

[01:01:00] Yeah. There's such good stuff in there that's not stuff that

[01:01:04] Ashl: gets played on the radio. It's so good. Because it

[01:01:06] Victoria: really is back to the roots of where this music came from. Yeah.

[01:01:11] Ashl: If you, and even, okay, I'm not going to keep mentioning random songs, but I will. There's on like even the soundtrack for Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?

[01:01:18] Oh God, that's such a great. Such a good soundtrack. Yeah there's this song called Oh Death and it's just this old man singing like about death and how he's just asking death to give him like another year. But even just like this guy is, it's not like a singer. It's just this old man singing and it's just so Powerful when you listen to that song you're like damn like I could listen that song over and over again cuz it's just you listen to him what he's saying you listen to what he's trying to explain It's just it's really awesome.

[01:01:51] It's really cool.

[01:01:51] Victoria: Yeah, if you want to go down a rabbit hole Yes so during the Works Progress Administration, like the WPA, [01:02:00] like when they got people to work in the depression, they sent all these people to Appalachia as song catchers to record these. These old people in Appalachia singing these songs, and you can listen to them at the Library of Congress and the Smithsonian websites, you can go and listen to these songs, these recordings.

[01:02:17] It's, it, I have chills thinking about it because it's just really, it is amazing to hear these people that, they weren't great singers necessarily, but They held these songs with them and there was something oh and i'm gonna mess the story up because I source amnesia but recently And i'm just fascinated by this and it also gave me chills when I thought about it.

[01:02:37] They And you may have seen this in the news too. There was a family and I want to say They're in the South somewhere, but I can't remember if they were in Georgia. But they had a song that they sang, like their family sang, and it turns out that it's a song that actually came from Africa and had survived in their family.

[01:02:54] That was a song that women sang when they gave birth. Wow. And it is. Is like this kind of, it's [01:03:00] mutated a little bit from the original language. And I can't remember if it was Yoruban or which African language it was, but just that these songs survived in these pockets is amazing to me.

[01:03:10] Yeah. I don't know. I just think there's really deep magic in that kind of stuff,

[01:03:14] Ashl: me too. I I don't know. You feel what these people are saying and I don't know. It's just, it's I love it. I love all types of folk music. It's so deep. It's it's rooted in the culture and what people were feeling at the time.

[01:03:26] It's so interesting.

[01:03:27] Victoria: It's not manufactured to be catchy. Like it's. There's a it exists for a reason it exists for a reason. So yes,

[01:03:35] Ashl: that's exactly part of it, too Yeah, it's not nobody was making these songs to like even like again, I'm gonna reference Oh brother art thou because I really enjoyed that movie No, I'm

[01:03:47] Victoria: saying I love that movie of the soundtrack it's

[01:03:49] Ashl: great.

[01:03:50] It's so good even Like the Soggy Bottom Boys, right? That's the group that they form in the movie. And even the song that is popular is called in [01:04:00] constant sorrow. He's just talking about, like, why he's so miserable, and how he'll never be able to get back to his hat, his home in Kentucky.

[01:04:07] And it's just yeah and this is the most popular song and everyone's dancing to it. And you're just like, yeah but it's a story. It's so cool. Like soggy

[01:04:16] Victoria: bottle. And the whole movie is based on the odyssey, right? Yeah. So there's like that song and the odyssey story, like it all just blends together.

[01:04:24] And you're like, we've been telling the same story for a really long, very

[01:04:27] Ashl: long time. And all of this kind of stuff, it's just. I just love it. It's so interesting. But I'm gonna find all this stuff and try to put it in the show notes so everyone can listen

[01:04:37] Victoria: to these songs. Oh my gosh. The show notes for this are gonna be like a mile and a half long.

[01:04:40] Yeah. It's gonna be a lot

[01:04:41] Ashl: of show notes. Oh, I can't wait. Oh, I'm so excited. But I do love

[01:04:45] Victoria: that. I think that is one of the gifts of these kind of conversations. , I just, putting my podcaster hat on. Yeah. And when I listen to a podcast, I love it when people do put those in the notes because it's something that you hear and you're often listening when you can't make a note yourself.[01:05:00]

[01:05:00] Yeah. Yeah, I am all for show notes that link all the weird shit that gets covered in the conversation. Oh, I love linking

[01:05:06] Ashl: weird shit. It's like the number one thing I love to do. Yeah, I'm gonna try to find that stuff in the Library of Congress because that sounds amazing, but and I'm probably gonna post A link to Oh Death so everybody can just listen to it because it's a good song.

[01:05:19] It is a great song. Yes. Oh god. I love it. I love that old man. He's so great. This has been an awesome wonderful amazing fun conversation Thank you so much victoria. So thank

[01:05:29] Victoria: you. Thanks for having me on Of course. So

[01:05:31] Ashl: just tell us where we can find you on the internet or where you would like to be found on the internet.

[01:05:36] Yeah.

[01:05:37] Victoria: Obviously you can listen to Witch Lit on anywhere you listen to podcasts or from witchlitpod. com directly if you're not a podcast app person. You can find me and my writing stuff at victoriarashkey. com or because rashkey is hard to spell, you can just go to read victoria. redirect. And Thousand Volt Press is our publishing company.

[01:05:59] I [01:06:00] don't know when this is going to go out. We just had a book come out from Yvonne Abro called Changing Paths. That is about people coming from one religious path to others specifically in their book. It's about, like a high control evangelical kind of background into Wicca and kind of the resources and.

[01:06:19] Because there's trauma and all that and resources and ways to navigate that experience. And then we have another book coming out from other podcasters, New World Witchery Corey Thomas Hedgeson and Lane Fuller. We are publishing their book Conjuring the Commonplace. About drunk junk dora magic and that'll be out later this summer.

[01:06:37] Ashl: Oh, nice. Okay. Yeah, so a

[01:06:40] Victoria: little podcast love all around there

[01:06:43] Ashl: Absolutely. And again, there's going to be so many links in the show notes. I'll be i'm going to put links to Victoria's publishing company. So everybody if you want to check out those books, I know a lot of people talk about the trauma of changing religions and having to deal with you know What they've been through so I think a lot of people will probably be really interested in [01:07:00] that

[01:07:00] Victoria: book Yeah, and Yvonne is such a, they're just a great writer and the book really has journal prompts and resources and just it's a wealth of, things for people who are going through that or have been through it and maybe still recovering from whatever the previous religion was.

[01:07:18] Ashl: Yeah. Oh my God. I love it. Okay. This has been awesome. So much fun. We got to talk about murder ballads. We got to talk about the juniper tree in Appalachia. This has just been awesome. Yeah, this is super fun. So yeah, everybody, this is our show for today. I hope you've enjoyed the conversation. I know I sure did.

[01:07:37] And if you want to keep listening, make sure you're subscribed on wherever you listen to your podcasts. Please give us a good five star rating if you like it. And if you want to follow us on the socials, again, I'm at dyingwiththedivine on Instagram. I'm dyingwiththedivine on. Facebook, and if you wanna follow me, Ashley, I'm Sankofa [01:08:00] Hs.

[01:08:00] That's S A N K O F A H S on Instagram. And I'm Sankofa Healing Sanctuary on Facebook. And I hope to see you guys next week. Have a wonderful week until we meet again. Goodbye.