Arepas, Mojo Bags and So Many Venezuelan Ghosts with Elhoim Leafer

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[00:00:00] Ashley: Hi everybody and welcome to Dine with the Divine. I'm your host, Ashley, and together we'll be exploring the magical, the mystical, and everything in between. On today's episode, we're going to talk about mojo bags and some very interesting folktales. So I hope you're having a great week, and if you're not, I hope it gets better soon.

[00:00:24] So today we have an awesome guest, Elohim Leifar. So Elohim is From Amazonas Venezuela and is a professional dowser Tarot reader and urban spiritual worker who also serves as an author Blogger and regular columnist for national and international publications he was initiated into traditional Venezuelan spiritualism very young became a practitioner of the Afro Caribbean religion Yoruba at Age 16 and can double it at.

[00:00:59] And [00:01:00] Alim is a, is the author of The Magical Art of Crafting Charm Bags and Dream Witchery. Alim, how are you today?

[00:01:10] Elhoim: Great. Thank you for having me. You are pretty awesome. Thanks for giving me

[00:01:14] Ashley: this space. Of course. Of course. I always start off with people asking them how they, like, how they got to where they are right now with their spiritual journey.

[00:01:25] So how did your journey start for you?

[00:01:29] Elhoim: My journey started I was very young. My mom and whole family, especially my mom, they have this practice of magic in Venezuela. They are all practitioners, old school brujas and curanderos. You grew up with a background, so it's easy to learn a lot of stuff.

[00:01:50] It's very easy because you have everything in your hands. I grew up in Amazonas which was very nice because we have the river, we have the trees, we have the [00:02:00] mountains. We have the ability to experiment a lot of different cultures because it's a very popular place for not just for immigrants, but also for many tourists.

[00:02:11] It's also where you can find multiple tribes, so you really will multiply tribes in there. Tribal people is like the best people from who you can learn spirituality because... They can make gold with not having too much stuff like us. . Yeah. E everything that we give for granted, they just really learn to don't need it.

[00:02:32] , you wake up in the morning, you wash, you take your shower in the river, you wash everything in the river. You can sleep on the stars. You can, you learn to walk and not lose yourself in the woods. Just watching the stars. You learn the order of the stars in the sky. You learn ation just watching the cloud.

[00:02:50] You learn to interact with different kind of people. You pick a little bit of different languages, Spanish, Portuguese, why you are, I work because you [00:03:00] are surrounded for all of this ama amazing culture. Then I moved to the city and when I moved to the city, my mom started the part of Spiritism traditional Spiritist.

[00:03:12] I was initiated in there when I was pretty young, then a year later, I moved to the United States, exactly eight years ago, and then I started learning English, Three or four years ago, previously, during COVID. And here I have the chance to learn even more. So I think that has been a whole journey that has prepared me for everything upcoming, probably in the future, because you learn, the most important thing that you learn in this process is that you don't care how much you have learned in the past, you always have something extra to learn.

[00:03:47] Because when I arrived in the United States, It's that feeling between, when you're an immigrant, you have that feeling between the arrogance of I am so good, because this is a country of immigrants, it's a country [00:04:00] made entirely for people of color made the White House. That's a fact that people choose to ignore.

[00:04:06] And at the same time, it's that humility that you know that your time here is temporary, you don't know when it's your last day. So it's a blend of emotion because you are arrogant but you are pretty humble at the same time. Yeah. And while you see that many people can misinterpret multiple of your practices because they don't have a real feedback from your...

[00:04:32] Area of expertise. People can just say, Oh, I think that when you come from Brazil or Cuba or Venezuela, which is where all of this starts, you see all of this with different eyes. So from one side, you see a lot of people like, okay, you're doing a lot of mistakes here, but at the same time.

[00:04:52] You can turn very arrogant because you continue learning a lot of the process. I am not a Western magician, but [00:05:00] I have learned a lot from Western magic in the past years. That have been, give me a lot of perspective on my own practices, which are very different, but now it's see different views like, oh, this is why you do this and this is, how do you reframe all the conversation about how it works.

[00:05:18] In the end, this is your perception of the gods. In the United States, what I have seen most is that people have this perception about gods and goddesses, or deities in some kind of archetypes made of energy and that they can, in some way, interfere with life. And people like to say, I don't work for the gods, I work with them.

[00:05:44] In my culture... I will not say that we are more humble or I think that we have a different approach For us. The goats are like real more physical data, like the mountains outdated, the river is [00:06:00] outdated, the trees are the songs, all the data. The sun in the sky is powerful data, and you not just work with them.

[00:06:07] Sometimes you work for them because at the end of the day, we are temporary here, but. We can say that I work with the goal of the song when you will die and the song will continue there and the moon will continue there. Yes. I mean, we are just very temporary here. Huh. They are very big presence in our life.

[00:06:24] Being here, being an immigrant, opened your eyes in multiple ways. Teach you a lot of lessons in life, teach you to be humble and teach you to don't care how much you have learned, don't care how much traditions of practice do you do you have in your rank, you continue being a human being and you continue learning because it's a lot to learn out there is a lot of languages, cultures, magic, recipes history when you come from countries where most of the people Black people our perception of race is entirely different than the perception of race in the United States.

[00:06:58] And you, from here, you [00:07:00] need to learn a lot about culture and history that you are not really... physically, mentally, or emotionally prepared to learn because the history of racism of racial fights in the United States is very strong if you compare this with the history of Venezuela and Brazil. I mean, if you just Google Brazil, you will find that most of the people are people of color and Venezuela is the country just next.

[00:07:22] Next to them. When you're born in Venezuela, I mean, or neighbor countries, Brazil, and the other one is Trinidad. So you black people for doing something that you just need for granted. You learn to don't see difference around. You just work around the street. Nobody, literally never in my country or in Colombia or in Peru.

[00:07:41] Argentina, in any of this country where I has the chance to be. Never, you listen, somebody say, oh, this is a white person, this is a black person. You literally never listen that here, the United States is entirely different perception, the color of Jewish skin. Brings a lot of background to the conversation of being a history, [00:08:00] being a different speech.

[00:08:01] People refer to you in a different way. That's something that you are not prepared to have when you're an immigrant, and this is like a very shocking truth. People can be overwhelmed you with facts when you are here. And that is part of the journey is continue learning wherever you are that the country is not just advancing, it's also changing.

[00:08:22] And you with the rest of the world because we need it. Yeah. Transfer the conversation to magic and spirituality is the same as spirituality is not something that is just stuck in one place of history. You continue learning and growing. Everything that I have learned for the past 30 years, in the next 60 or 40 years, probably not will be so consistent for another person, for another witch.

[00:08:50] They will just see whatever I wrote. Not just something that I learned from Amazon, they will see, oh, who is this old guy from Venezuela, where was that?[00:09:00] They will see the perception of magic in a different way because I hope their culture turn different to us. I really have big hopes for the next generation because I have a lot of nephews.

[00:09:11] I have 14 nephews. Oh,

[00:09:13] Ashley: wow.

[00:09:13] Elhoim: Yeah. I have a big family. I have 14 nephews. I have a lot of hope that the next generation can heal all the wounds that our generation actually has. Because we have been overcoming the trauma, the generational trauma of our parents and our grandpa. These people survived the wars.

[00:09:35] So my grandpa comes from Turkey to Venezuela. He was an immigrant too. He s escape from the second war. . So it's a lot of trauma there. And when you are in this generation, you entirely see things in different white how will be seen for the next one. . I think that all of this has been my learning, my journey for the past eight years here in the United States has been every day something new.

[00:09:59] I mean, when you're [00:10:00] in the United States, is. We have pronouns, and it's something that Venezuelan people for us is like, what is that? Like, yeah, we the language with they or three. And that is okay, but it's something that continues to be shocking. All the racial conversation is like, really overwhelming.

[00:10:18] All the fight for trans rights and equalities

[00:10:26] is that at the same time, in some way, all the. Knowledge and tools that I bring from my country in some way, in some kind of armor that prepares me for, Okay, you come here, you don't come here to be comfortable, you come here to fight for what's right. And what's right is learn to make space for everybody else, and that's also part of the journey, part of the magic.

[00:10:51] I'm trying to open more spaces for trans people, for people of color, for queer people, for people who don't feel [00:11:00] like they are fitting anywhere, and you need to open spaces for them. If someone in your tradition, in your craft, in your calling, feel like they don't fit, it's not opening

[00:11:16] spaces for them. When I come from Venezuela, I remember part of my speech, my arrogance in that moment was, you need to open a space in your table. For me to put a chair now, after eight years, I just learned, if you don't want me on your table, take your table, I will take mine, I will bring my own table, I will build my own table, and I will put my own folks in there, and when you see how colorful, and rich, and nurturing is my table, you will want to come here, and listening to you, I will say, yes, come here, because we are the Gromo people

[00:11:50] Ashley: here.

[00:11:55] I love hearing how your perspective as somebody as [00:12:00] an immigrant is so interesting. One of the things that I think is remarkable is that, and I find this with a lot of people People, a lot of people around the world, and I can't speak for Latin America or the well I can speak a little for the Caribbean, not Latin America, but I know from my experience a lot of people who I know or family members or friends of family members from the Caribbean or from Africa, feel like you come to the United States and it's like, you hear all these things about the United States, and it's always Oh, everything's great.

[00:12:32] Everything's wonderful. But people don't realize, they don't realize it's a lie. It's a lie. It's a complete, it's a lie. Like there, there are positive, well, there's positive things about, first of all, there's positive things about every country. I don't care how economically wonderful it is or how not it is.

[00:12:48] Everything has a good side and a bad side. Same with the United States. People come here, they don't realize, number one, the culture shock is crazy, especially, like you said, when you're a person of color. If, even if you're a [00:13:00] person who has an accent, let's, I'm saying, I know a lot of people who came from European countries, and they experience issues with people just because they may have a strong accent.

[00:13:12] So somebody may, say something to them about that. But you have to work really hard here to get where you want to get. It's not like you just come here and you get a great job and everything's perfect. No, it's really hard. And then you have all these barriers because we have this really complicated history with race and it gets really difficult and not only race with gender identity with sexuality all this kind of stuff gets really hard here there are some people say well we're open to these things we are open to them but it doesn't mean that in every part of the country people are accepting of that so it can be really difficult as an immigrant and my parents are immigrants, and even as a child of an immigrant, it gets passed down a little bit.

[00:13:54] Obviously, it's different, but like, you still have that sense of [00:14:00] otherness, like, your quote unquote, maybe your food smells funny, somebody might tell you, or like, yeah, you know what I mean? Like those types of things. So it can be difficult, but I, like, from what you were said, like, from what you grew up with, You bring those things with you, and when you can embrace those things and use

[00:14:19] you use your childhood, you use your culture, and you just add on to it. When you came here, you're like, okay, I'm just gonna learn, but I'm also gonna bring my culture into this. I'm gonna bring what I know and what I learned, and you make yourself, number one, more knowledgeable, more cultured by doing that.

[00:14:37] And you make other people be like, oh wow, like... This is really interesting, this thing that I want to learn from you, and you're so open. And that's how you bring, like you said, you brought your table along and now people are like, oh, his table looks pretty good. Like, you can come over here.

[00:14:53] Elhoim: I mean, I mean, we are in which I think that we have, I mean, we have social media.

[00:14:58] That's something that our parents [00:15:00] did have. I'm sure that... If they had social media in their time, they could have prevented a lot of things, including maybe war, because, it's better having just a virtual war on social media than having a real war where what is happening right now in Ukraine, which is one of my first topics in my head every day for the past year they just social media.

[00:15:26] Yeah. It's a very toxic. for me about everything that is happening. And it's social media is a tool that we have and we need to approach in a very good way because you can use social media to be very toxic or you can use social media to help others, to communicate orders, to bring ideas, to open the table, to open the conversation, to open the conversation with other folks and say, you're feeling comfortable.

[00:15:50] Tell me here in public, while you're feeling comfortable with these situation, what. It's what we are making wrong, and that is something that our parents didn't [00:16:00] have. So we have all of these tools, I think that we have the chance to use them for good. So if you have the chance to fit in a place and open the place a bit more for someone else, and see how strong is the racial fight here in the United States, I mean, after 2020, this has been very like, eye opening.

[00:16:21] For everybody, in so many aspects, in so many ways, because for one side, yeah, you can just focus in, it's a lot of racial fight, but also you can see how strong this, how much strength is given to people, like, we need to be together, we need to fight together, it's not your fight, it's our you are not alone here.

[00:16:45] One of the hardest conversations that I have had here in the United States is the fact that I look white, except when I talk. And a lot of times, and this has literally happened a lot of times, when I talk on social media about races. People [00:17:00] feel very uncomfortable and three times people have say, oh, but you don't know that, that you are white

[00:17:05] And when you say that I am white, you're entirely erasing years of history. And the fact that , my, both of my grandmas are indigenous people. When is white on the other one is awa. , when you are saying that I am white, you are era. The fact that many of our grandmas and the most of them were rated for white people from a and they look like this because that happened.

[00:17:27] Yeah. You are entirely erasing the fact that organs were raped by white men. I look like this. It's for that. And many people in Venezuela looks like me. We are, we look white, but we continue having grandmas who are like black. My grandma is very small. It's like half of my stature. She's entirely black with this beautiful black long hair.

[00:17:54] That made me feel very jealous. And she's from the people, my other [00:18:00] grandma, who is a very small person too, physically. , she come from the rag ones. . And they look very tall and they look very white. And they have this girl because, They didn't have the chance to marry with people of their own tribe.

[00:18:11] They were forced to marry with other people. So when you say, Oh, you can't talk about racism because you are white. Baby, I'm not white. You are just ignorant of history. And you need to bring that kind of very uncomfortable conversations to not just social media, but also to the real world. Because people just want to ignore the facts.

[00:18:32] It's like when you are, in Venezuela, people just give you the bad news about United States because United States is imperial. You don't want to be there. They are. They are the killer. They are so racist, blah, blah, blah, yada, yada, yada. But the center of power of the war, the first countries, United States and the most powerful place in United States is the White House.

[00:18:53] Which ironically was built by black people. , you see how strong is black people in the end of the conversation when they [00:19:00] literally. Be the most strongest, powerful being in the whole continent. Yeah. These kind of facts are very important and it's important to remind people about this because black culture is very alive and people just choose to ignore it.

[00:19:15] And black culture is not just for people who look black, it's for everyone. Everybody around who feels all the same from black folks like me. My, my grandpa is Turkish. Is Turkish. My grandma is indigenous. The other grandma is indigenous too. My other grandpa was German. And all of this gave me some kind of blend when I was growing in Venezuela.

[00:19:38] What here people see like, oh, you are Latino and Venezuela was like, you are just one more fold between us because everybody there looks practically like me, we look very white. And when you have all of these kind of cultures, or this kind of background, and you have the chance to come to the United States, you can't just silence yourself when you see these situations [00:20:00] about black folks talking, you need to, on the contrary, you need to be very loud, and say, wait, this country, these powers come from black people, I mean, it's our

[00:20:16] When you translate this conversation to religion, to spirituality, to magic, you see also how many of the white western culture magic is taking stuff from the black culture. White people talking about orishas, about lukumi, about candomblé, about voodoo, And most of these things come from slaves.

[00:20:41] Ashley: It's yeah that I think we're gonna one of these days have a episode where we talk about spiritual like Appropriation because there is a lot and it goes back to also something else. You said I think it's really interesting what you mentioned like you see a lot of [00:21:00] European, we talk about European mythology or magic and people talk about the deities being archetypes, but a lot of people indigenous people I know a lot in Africa this happens, even in Asia, I believe It's more that the deities are like living things and they are involved in every aspect of our lives.

[00:21:22] And I do think that's really interesting because I feel that the, and it's not European people's fault. I think a lot of it has to do with Christianity mixing in with it. But it's like, there's a detachment there. It's like, well, like I can do what I want. Because like, it's just the idea of this god that does this, but in these other cultures where we're like, no, these gods are the ground that we walk on, they are the trees that shade us, they are the, like you said, they're the sun, they're the earth, they're living forever and ever, and they are existing forever, and we are Existing for this finite time.

[00:21:59] So it's [00:22:00] like we want to honor them. We want you know, you want good things from these deities So you want to live in a way in which they will continue to bestow blessings on you So it's more of a like I think it also helps When it comes to the environment, right? Because you were thinking constantly that these gods and these deities that you want to honor and bless and give give offerings to are literally among you all the time.

[00:22:26] So you want to take care of the earth. So that like, even brings in the environmentalism into it. Cause you're like, well, this is... This is our realm, but it's their realm and they created it for us to live on so we need to take care of it so it's like a completely especially in places like the amazon where like Nature is everything the flora and fauna is so rich and you know the plants and the animals and they can be affected so deeply by climate change and the people who are living there, especially The people who are deep in there, who aren't really having a lot of contact with [00:23:00] the rest of us.

[00:23:01] That's, this is their livelihood. They don't have all this other stuff that we have. And trust me, not all this other stuff we have, it doesn't mean it's better. I'm just saying that their resource is literally what they have on the ground. We need to help them with that. Yeah. Yes, when

[00:23:15] Elhoim: you are, for example, here in the United States for example, you go, I don't want to trash.

[00:23:21] The American people or the American culture, it's just that they are very used to, for example, if people go to the beach or to the river, and you go just stay there for like three hours, Three or two or of these three hours, you are just sit down taking Sombat with your phone in your hand. You during the resource.

[00:23:40] You are not drilling the place mentally. You're just physically there, practically enjoyable. You're not disconnecting from the rest of the world. You continue with your smartphone in your hand. , I have seen, because I was living in the Bronx in New York City for four years. People go to the river park, and when I was in the river, walking around there, [00:24:00] I was watching, Oh, look at these trees, look at these birds, look at these flowers.

[00:24:03] I wanna take a shower in there. My point was just, they stand over a rock, take a picture, and they just continue walking. Like, you really didn't connect with the place. When you are in places like Amazonas, or in any of the, or Island in the Caribbean, like if you are in Barbados, if you are in Trinidad, if you are in...

[00:24:21] Curaçao, in any of these places, people literally don't need a phone, you just go to the river, you just wake up in the morning and say I want to take a day in the river, you take your stuff, you make some sandwiches, a bottle of water, you go to the river with your family, people make a big barbecue in there, a big cumbo, a big soup, anything, and you pass the whole day in the river just you can shower for hours.

[00:24:43] You literally go to the river, you stay in there for like four hours. You come outside, you eat something, drink something, just sleep next to the river. Then you go again to the river and just pass your whole day. They're entirely disconnected. That is a common thing in Amazon. These people. , going [00:25:00] to look for pool, these people, doing competition to hike in the mountains.

[00:25:04] Is enjoying the river is let take a boat. Navigate the whole river for the whole day. Today we go to hunt snakes or anything or other animals that I don't know how to pronounce in English. The one word that I know is snake. It's a serpent. It's the one that I know. This is what people see like, Oh, it's a hobby.

[00:25:28] I'm going to the river in three weeks for us is the day by day. What do you see? Like what for people is, Oh, this is just a river for us. It's like, no, this is not a river. This is home. You, when you are in this kind of places, you, your mom is like. Oh, you want to sleep here tonight? Yeah, okay, take a pillow.

[00:25:46] And you literally have to live in the river. And the next morning you just shower in the river and go back to home. That is our culture. When tourists, that's the reason why tourists is so popular in Amazonas. People come because they want to disconnect [00:26:00] from the world because our world is overwhelmed with so much information.

[00:26:03] The news, the world. The pandemic people just want a moment to breathe and they go back to the root, which is the root. Let me go back to the origin, to the source, to the ancestry. So let me take a week. In the Amazonas, where to practice ayahuasca, cacao ceremonies, whatever they want to do. A lot of people go to do ayahuasca when they see the ceremony, they are like, I don't want to participate in that, but they are still in there in the Amazonas for a whole week.

[00:26:31] And they shower in the river and they stay in there. It's the worst internet connection in the world. So they just in a moment, they just quit and throw the smartphone and they just. finally enjoy. And when they need to go back, they are like, Oh, I need to go back to the city. I need to go back to my life.

[00:26:47] I don't want to go back. Welcome to our life.

[00:26:54] Ashley: Oh, that does sound nice. Get away for a minute. There, I love that. What we're going [00:27:00] to do next is we're going to go to our next section, where we're going to talk about our food section. We have our dish of the week. So I didn't know which dish to pick, so I was like, let's look up some Venezuelan foods because I don't know too much about Venezuelan food, except I only know the first one on my list, which is arepas.

[00:27:18] I know arepas.

[00:27:22] So one thing that I learned from this article that I didn't know I've only ever had arepas with like just the cheese Yeah, but you can have it with like lots of other stuff in it

[00:27:33] Elhoim: You can do arepas with everything, even with rice. Yeah. The beautiful thing about arepas, we have this this is something that I see reflected in...

[00:27:43] Puerto Rican and Dominican culture, they are all the time fighting for what is mine. This is Puerto Rican. This is Dominican. This this food is Puerto Rican. This food is Dominican. They are all the time fighting for that. Venezuela and Colombia, we are practically the same. We are all the time fighting for who created what.

[00:27:58] But at the end of the day [00:28:00] we all own our own food. All food is really similar. We work on kids for the Spain's and this, they divide us because you divide and conquest. So we are starting this fight like who is better and who do more food. Venezuela and Colombia have similar arepas.

[00:28:16] In Colombia they do it with platano, they take the plantain and they make the arepas with that. I prefer the Venezuelan ones because I think that it's a little more light to eat and you can eat more. You can fill your arepas with whatever you want, with cheese, with jam. We chicken with rice. My favorite one is the chicken salad.

[00:28:38] People prepare a chicken salad with potatoes, mayonnaise and chicken. Sometimes a little bit of bacon. They blend all of this and they put inside of the arepa. That is like to die. You eat that and you eat anything else in your life. People can eat arepas with cheese and platanos. People can fill it with three different kinds of [00:29:00] cheese.

[00:29:00] Whatever you can put in a pizza, you can put that in an arepa. People here see it like something very exotic. Like, oh, a Venezuelan food. But we eat arepas for breakfast, for lunch, for dinner. It's like our sandwich. Because actually, bread sandwich is imported from United States and China. For us, it's easier to do arepas for everything.

[00:29:21] You just take arepas to your job. We also have empanadas, which is something very similar. And we have it associated with Colombia and Peru. And it's like an arepa, just like, more difficult to make, but you can put everything in there, especially people like to make it with meat, but the best one, at least for me, is the Venezuelan traditional food for the holidays, which is a yacas.

[00:29:50] I really love it for two things. It's the best one that we have in any country of Latin America and the Caribbean. Everybody have their [00:30:00] own version of Ayatollah, because it's actually an indigenous food. And I love so much how you see that everybody have their own version. Because, when you see it, even if they change the name or the country, we all remain the same people.

[00:30:19] Something that I love. The second one is that they made it with plantain leaves. They take the plant, the leaves of the planting tree and they cook all the food in there with the meat, with the spices, with the tomatoes, with potatoes. They put everything in there. They cover a lot of these with the leaves, they buy that on the.

[00:30:42] They put in the hot water for hours, that can be like nine hours. Wow. And it's everything cooking inside of the platano leaves. And when you are eating that, that is like the most amazing food in the world. But it takes you hours to do it, because when you are going to do it, you need... You need to take the [00:31:00] platano leaves, which are like very big, and you need to wash them all with a lot of water.

[00:31:06] Because you're going to cook all your food inside of that. And when you have the chance to travel to any country of Latin America or the Caribbean, you will see that everybody have their own version of the ayacas. But also, like that indigenous flavor influencing there, because it was a more Western or European dish.

[00:31:29] Probably they will do it entirely different, but we continue using the same technique. You put the biggest cauldron that you have in home. You put that thing on fire with a lot of water. You take your platano leaves. You put everything inside. You how would you say? You fold. They live in a very specific way, and you put that in the water for hours, just like the indigenous people used to do.

[00:31:53] And in the end of the day, all the food is very well cooked inside of the platano leaves, and has the flavor [00:32:00] of the platano inside of the food, which is amazing. And

[00:32:07] it's like a very authentic, but difficult indigenous technique to cook food. That is like very difficult to replace. And every December, especially in Colombia and Venezuela, that the whole families come together just to prepare the plate. Because it can take you like a whole day to do it. And you need a lot of assistance.

[00:32:25] You need someone just washing the leaves. You need someone just preparing the meat. You need someone just preparing all the other details. Because it's a lot of things that you put together. Four or five different things. The potatoes, the chicken, the meat, all of that needs to be very well cooked before to put inside the leaves.

[00:32:42] So you need at least five person working at the same time, just in the kitchen. So it's like a very traditional family thing that you see that everybody comes together because oh, your uncle is doing this year. So everybody goes to the house, everybody brings something for the food [00:33:00] and everybody's all day celebrating, the music very loud.

[00:33:04] People is drinking and at the same time we are cooking. You are not eating anything during the whole day because in the dinner you will eat all the yuccas you can eat nine, you can eat two in the morning if you want.

[00:33:20] Ashley: Oh my god that sounds, first of all it sounds like a good time. Like it sounds like fun and then it also sounds really delicious.

[00:33:28] Yeah it is. I love that. So so then we also have on this list you mentioned I think you already mentioned Well, we talked about plantain leaves that we're talking about. Okay, this is what I learned. One time I was at like an outdoor festival and there was a Puerto Rican food truck and I went there.

[00:33:48] I love plantains. I'm African and I'm Jamaican. I can eat plantains for breakfast, dinner, lunch, the ones that are sweet. And then in Ghana, we have something called kilawili, which [00:34:00] is like a fried plantain, but it's Seasoned a little bit with ginger and something else, but it's very delicious. So I was like, Oh, can I please have some fried plantains?

[00:34:10] And he said, do you want tostones? And I said, yes. And I forget now I'm forgetting if this is the right one, but I know for a Puerto Rican people, there's two different kinds. I don't know what it's like in Venezuela, but there's one that's like smash and like, yeah. And then there's one that's like fried.

[00:34:26] That's sweet.

[00:34:29] Elhoim: The French food is usually is commonly for in Venezuela, it's commonly for lunch. And the smasher is like a very exotic thing that you eat when you go to the beach. It's something that they sit in there. They put the plantain totally smashed, and they put over that a lot of cheese and salt.

[00:34:48] And they bring a whole plate for that. It's something that you usually just eat in the beach because it's like... It's like too exotic and it's something simpler to do than other kind of food. So when you [00:35:00] go to the beach you see all these kiosks and people going around with all of these big plates. They are selling that for like two, three dollars and they give you a whole big plate from where you can eat like ten people or just two of me.

[00:35:13] Ashley: Yeah

[00:35:17] Yes, it's so good and that's another thing i've noticed about a lot of different latin american foods Is you guys love a plantain and cheese? And the cheese is I don't I never knew this until a few years ago I was like, why do they always have plantains and cheese like? Like I can't get used to it just because that's not what i'm used to But I always take the cheese out because the kind of cheese it is I don't know what kind of cheese it is, but it's delicious.

[00:35:42] I eat the cheese by itself Yeah It's like a white cheese. I know there's like, I don't know what the kind of cheese is All I know is every time i've bought it. I take the cheese out. I eat it separately and it's absolutely delicious I love it. Okay, so we have we talked a lot about empanadas already and then there [00:36:00] was one food that I didn't No, this was, but it sounds a little bit like arepas.

[00:36:06] It's called Cajapas? Ah!

[00:36:12] Elhoim: You need to come home and I will make it for

[00:36:14] Ashley: you. It says here it's a thin pancake with ground corn. Case Blanco and sugar and cooked in Budda in a bore. I don't know what that is. I'm sorry. Yeah, a

[00:36:29] Elhoim: abre is like, in how I can describe this ju I mean, it's easier if you just Google. Indigenous food.

[00:36:37] You will see all of these pictures of beautiful women cooking in a very big piece of metal, totally plain, black metal, that's the budare, and we use the budare to cook practically, you can cook practically everything in there, eggs, chicken, meat, empanadas, arepas, pabellón, whatever you want, it's just a big piece of metal, and you [00:37:00] put the fire below, and you put the Everything over that like some kind of barbecue, you put, you can put everything in that.

[00:37:06] The kachapa, that is like a very strong food, it's really something national, something really Venezuelan, I think. But that is a very heavy food, that is like you eat one and you need to go to sleep. Yeah, immediately. It's super delicious because it's all of this big plate that they do is this yellow smasher thing that I don't know how to describe.

[00:37:32] It's very hot from the goudare and they put over the butter and the cheese. So all of this is melting over and then you just fold it. Ooh. And you put more butter over that. Oh boy. And the plate. Next to your café con leche, your coffee with milk, and you eat that, and with just, I mean it's something that you just eat like in weekends, because you can't eat that before your job, because you will totally fall [00:38:00] down immediately.

[00:38:00] It's

[00:38:01] Ashley: just gonna be better. Oh my gosh. Well, everybody, this is your introduction to Venezuelan food. So you've got to go and get some because it all sounds absolutely delicious okay. So then this is the part of the show i'm going to plug myself and then we'll move on So if you're enjoying the show, we're dine with the divine.

[00:38:19] You can follow me on the socials I'm at dine with the divine on instagram and facebook and if you really like the show Please feel free to pause and give us a rating a review that helps a lot, especially on apple or Spotify. And make sure you're listening to us so you can always get it every Thursday.

[00:38:36] And if you want to give me a tip, there's a link in the show notes to do that too. And if you have any suggestions for episodes or comments or anything you want to tell me, you can feel free to email me at dimethedivinepod at gmail. com. Okay, so we're going to move on to our next section. So our next section is Tea Time.

[00:38:54] Tea Time is where we talk a little bit about something we're going to educate ourselves on. Usually [00:39:00] a spiritual topic or a historical topic, but this one is both And this is something that elohim knows a lot about because he wrote a whole book about it So this is about mojo bags or charm bags that we're going to talk about today So if you've ever heard and I just put I have mojo bag a lot here because that's what i'm used to hearing but charm bag mojo bag.

[00:39:19] They're inter Interchangeable is the same thing. Yeah. I just have my little definition here that I got from, of course, Wikipedia, because I love Wikipedia. A mojo bag. So a mojo bag is something in a lot of different traditions. And then we'll talk a little bit about the historical part of it in a minute.

[00:39:35] So a lot of people in the United States would have heard of a mojo bag. And it's usually in an African American spiritual tradition, like from hoodoo. If you're in the U. S., that's usually how you know it. It's usually an amulet or literally a little bag consisted of some different magical items. Some people call it a prayer in a bag.

[00:39:54] Some people call it a mojo hand, a toby, a nation sack, a conjure [00:40:00] hand, lucky hand, a charm bag, trick bag, root bag, jomo, gris bag, or just gris. The quote unquote mojo, it refers to what is in the bag and what's like the intention. So me. There will be and we'll get into the specific items in the bag that are carrying a certain intention and the person's usually carrying it on themselves or maybe in their bed depending on what it's for.

[00:40:25] The containers people historically used historically people use literally bags, maybe they made them out of leather or sack or flan or whatever. Some people use gourds bottles, shells, and there's a lot of other containers you can use. So the word Mojo, it believed it comes from the Kilkongo people of the Congo Basin.

[00:40:47] Now, everybody, we've referred to this a lot. If you don't remember, go back to our first episode where we talked a lot about how, during the beginning of the Atlantic Sleeve Trade, [00:41:00] For the first 200 years ish, a lot of the slaves came from Central Africa and not Western Africa. And Western Africa was later.

[00:41:10] So at the beginning, a lot of people came from the Congo area, Angola, Gabon, that area. Those Kilkongo people had their own mythology and their own spiritual practices that they brought with them. And a lot of that inspired a lot of the spiritual practices in Hoodoo and a lot of other religions, African traditional religions and magical practices in the Caribbean and the Americas.

[00:41:36] The word there from the Kilkongo people who are the people of the Congo Basin is called Mojo literally Mojo And it means the spirits that dwell within magical charms. So these charms they're called kissy It's literally spelled n k i s i. I think the n isn't pronounced. Meaning, a object that Within a meaning an [00:42:00] object within which a spiritual object dwells so the misuse of the word started in the 20th century the word mojo was appropriated and misused by white Americans in movies to Referred to sexual virility, which it had nothing to do with a lot of white Americans started using this word mojo without actually knowing what it meant at all in African American culture, and especially in Gullah culture, which is like the culture of the people of South Carolina islands, I believe there's a lot of People were using it in that and then white Americans heard it and just thought it meant like being sexual But it really has nothing to do with it.

[00:42:40] So In Central Africa and in West Africa people practice the spiritual art of creating Conjure bags for protection healing and to communicate with spirits the grist literally the word grist They think originates from the Dahomey people and that actually was associated with Islamic traditions because [00:43:00] we also talked about this a lot of people who then when they were in Western Africa taking slaves in countries like Sierra Leone in areas of Liberia there's a lot of Muslim people and some of their magical practices that were indigenous to the area, even though they were Muslim came over with them too.

[00:43:18] Originally, the gris versions of these bags were adorned with Islamic scripture and were used to ward off evil spirits, especially the jinn, or bad luck. So historians noted that at the time that they were frequently worn by non believers and believers alike and were found attached to buildings.

[00:43:36] The practice of using gris, though originating in Africa, came to the United States with enslaved... Africans and was quickly adopted with enslaved Africans in Louisiana, in Voodoo and Hoodoo and in Vaudan in Haiti. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. One really cool example of this, and I couldn't find too much example too much about this [00:44:00] guy.

[00:44:00] There was a guy named Gullah Jack who led a slave revolt, and he was an African slave from Angola. And he carried his conjure bag onto the slave ship when leaving Zanzibar all the way to the United States. And he was known during his... Slave. I think he tried a couple times. I have to look more up about this guy, Gullah Jack.

[00:44:21] I'll write about it in the blog. I think he tried a couple times to do slave results, but he was known for always having spiritual protection. This, like I said, this is something that people carried around with them and helped them a lot. And... You can tell me what you think. Do you think this is something that is a practice?

[00:44:41] Like I don't hear people really talk about it until I found that you wrote a book about it I was like, I didn't really hear people talk about charm bags too much but it was something so practical that I think at the time people were like, oh we could use it all the time and I don't know if you've seen people use this a lot in your practice.[00:45:00]

[00:45:00] Elhoim: It's very practical. First of all, I love how much well informed you are. Thank you, . We need more people like you. Please.

[00:45:09] Ashley: I just like the Google stuff. , but

[00:45:12] Elhoim: is, but it's okay. Whatever is the source of information. What, why you have information. That's okay. Many people don't do that work. I grow this book, the Medical Art of Crafting Sharma, who I was coming from.

[00:45:24] I bring the manuscript from Venezuela. Originally the manuscript was Grow, grow in Spanish and Portuguese. I have recipes in both language. I bring all the recipes from family. , I came to the United States, I sent the manuscript, they approved it immediately. I never imagined that like, five, six years later, people will continue buying the book really become super popular, more than I was really expecting, because even sometimes I just think, it's a book on charmers, it's not like, so complicated. But I think that people like it because of the fact that, it's not other books on the fact out there the few that are [00:46:00] not from someone who is not white. I have the chance to learn about this week. In Latin America, we call it in general STOs, which is like a little bag.

[00:46:10] In Venezuela, we call it Bol atos, which is bag of amulets because we put the amulets inside of the bag. It's a super practical way of magic that I see that it's like very underrated for the people because first of all, people wants to do. Everything easier. We are in the TikTok era. So everybody wants to do something like very fast.

[00:46:34] I want a low spell without any effort. I want to do a modest spell that just works in seven days without spending any money, any effort, any time. We want that. And when you say, you need to cut the clothes, you need to sew. The pieces, you need to put everything together, you need to craft a little circle around to protect the energy of the elements that you're putting inside of the bag, because you don't want [00:47:00] anything of that bring some negativity in your spell, people just see it like, oh, that's too much work to do.

[00:47:06] And the second thing is, because don't look like something like very ceremonial, people want, the whole ceremony, they want the whole, We can each style, we need the circle and the condoms and the stuff. And what I say in the book is like, you can grab the charms in your room. Because I can't just think or assume that every person who by the book have the biggest space in their home. Like, oh, you can take this whole room to make your casting. A lot of people just leave for rent in a little apartment. Yeah. Or in a room. That's the true of many people and many of these people are witches.

[00:47:43] , I was living for rent in a little apartment in my country, in Venezuela, for a long time, for like two years. And my altar was actually a chair with a big throw over. and stuff in there. That was my altar. And in this book, what [00:48:00] I try to put... Most of all was two things. First of all, my personal respect and respect for my family that has been for generations because I think we have a very rich culture, not just in Venezuela, actually my family, because we have many medical traditions in the family, my grandpa comes from Turkey, so he had a He brings some kind of Jewish Muslim heritage because he was like a very cult person.

[00:48:25] He knows a lot about his culture. He reads a lot about his culture. He talks many languages because he travels a lot of countries before to arrive in Venezuela. He was a long time in Portugal and in Spain too. So my mom refers to my grandpa like the big colonizer of the family, because he came directly from Spain.

[00:48:44] And when I say grandpa, she says, yeah, the colonizer. But we love him. Yeah, but we love him. And he had all of these beliefs on djinns and some kind of gods of the desert. And he was like very... [00:49:00] A very realistic person. He's the kind of person who travels to Portugal and he goes to take his airplane to Spain.

[00:49:06] He takes a little bit of dust from any place of the airplane so I have some dust from Portugal with me so I can do this for spellcasting or whatever from that land. And he cut, he keep all of this stuff in little bags and bottles. That is part of the culture that my mom has. So I am growing.

[00:49:27] To create all kinds of charmer because I was in the military school for four years. I always have a charmer with me in my bag for protection, for being a good student, to keep the focus in the classes, to don't have distractions, this kind of things. The second thing that I try to put in the book after the recipes is how you can create your own charmer.

[00:49:50] So I give... I put in the book a whole list with plants, herbs, crystals, oils, moon phases, everything that you can do for your [00:50:00] shambhala. So you can do how big you want, how small you want. I just want to do a shambhala filling with some... Crystal Quartz and Sun Rosemary. You can do it. I have a lot of money and I want to create this big whole charm with the most expensive materials and put, I don't know, gold and diamonds inside.

[00:50:20] You can do it. Nobody cares. It's your magic. It's your tactics. Do it however you want. Just please be informed of the elements that you are using. Put everything inside of the bag without a lot of fairness or in the book. I I make a big emphasis on something that people underrate a lot, which is make a circle.

[00:50:40] Because people is like, oh, I'm going to perform this special. I'm going to put these elements inside of a bag or a Which bottle? Yeah, but you have your table, and in your table you eat your food, and sometimes you're having talks with someone in your table, and those conversations can be very uncomfortable, you have all that energy in the table, you are putting your clothes, [00:51:00] your crystals, your everything there, absorbing that energy, and you're putting that consciously, willingly inside of the bag, that you are carrying with yourself everywhere, so you're trying to keep that bad energy then you will be asking why the spell didn't work, Well, that's the reason.

[00:51:16] Yeah. In the moment that you craft a little less circle , whatever you do with chalk, with big cordon, with whatever you do in that moment, we just don't understand how powerful is really that they carry with them. , you carry power in your words, your actions. In your thoughts, and when you combine all of these together, and you are just casting a little circle, even with your finger around the place, you being a witch, you are, in that moment of performing, you are saying, with this action, with this thought, with this movement, you are saying to the world and to the space, this place is sacred, this space is sacred.

[00:51:51] This space is mine, and not energy comes here, because this circle that I made is mine, belongs to me, and just my energy comes here. So when you put your elements inside [00:52:00] of that circle, your candle, your incense, and everything for your charm bag all of this have your energy, and not bad energy can come inside of that.

[00:52:09] So you combine all of these elements, and you can have your charm bag with you, for love, for healing, for protection.

[00:52:17] The book on Chumbox in some way is a little not entirely dated, but it's a reflection of my culture because Latin America is not so open to many things like the United States it is. For example, right now, queer culture in the United States is very big. Latin America is not like that. It's a very misogynistic place.

[00:52:39] For example, in the book I have very specific spells for love, like, common love spells and love spells for people who are looking for someone of the same sex. For some people it can be a little bit different. When you come from my culture, it's like something that we continue doing these days because certain elements just like plants and just like animals can [00:53:00] identify with some kind of energy and what you are trying to do.

[00:53:03] It's trying to bring the same energy that you are bringing from yourself or a different kind of energy. So I tried to that in the book. Sorry, what was the question? I just kept talking. No,

[00:53:16] Ashley: that's okay. You answered it. Cause I was just, I just wanted to hear about like what it was for you.

[00:53:22] And you answered the question. You, yeah, you over answered the question and I love it. I love it. I love the way you explain things. It's very good. So you were talking about what people put in it. So that's the next thing I was going to bring up also. So great. We're doing fantastic. Oh, another quick note before we go on to what people put in it.

[00:53:39] Another like historical note here. So the, in Central Africa, going back to the Congo people, the Congo Basin, They call these Spirits that live in the Minsky bag, in the bag called, they're called the Minis, Minkissi and Kissi spirits are the spirits that are made by [00:54:00] the person who's going to make the bag.

[00:54:02] They put the spirits in the bag and the different things in the bag represent them. So the also there's a belief that there's this spirit called Simbi and Simbi also is in the bag and the mojo bag. And this again is from the Bokongo people. So the Bakongo people, the Kilkongo people, they're all living in the same area.

[00:54:21] So I'm interchangeably using them, but they're not exactly the same, but they have similar beliefs. So anyway, next, what do people put in the bag? You're like, what goes in this bag? It depends on what you want. So it depends on the person who's doing the bag. It depends on the intention, just like Elohim just explained already.

[00:54:37] You can use specific oils, you can use crystals, just like he said, all those different things. And this, the important thing. is that, like you said, depending on where you're making it, I love how you do this for anybody. You made this so accessible, right? Like, you're like, okay, you want to make a bag, you have a one room, you live in one room, you had a chair that was [00:55:00] an altar, you can do that.

[00:55:01] Yeah, it's very simple. It's not, you don't have to, there's nothing, like you said. I'm just repeating what you said at this point, but it's nothing wrong with, there's nothing wrong with having expensive stuff if you can afford it and that's what you like, great, do that, it's cool, but if you don't...

[00:55:15] Elhoim: Yeah, however you want it, just, I have this quote that sometimes people misunderstood it's like, you are what you eat.

[00:55:24] And I think that in magic, you are exactly what you do. Try to not be cheap, and when I say try to not be cheap, people think that I'm saying, oh, go and spend a lot of money. No, I'm saying try to, when you are buying something for your magic, you need to have the confidence that your magic will do the work to bring that money back.

[00:55:44] You can do, you literally can't ever, never, please never do a money spell and go buy the item and say, oh, I can buy this. Oh, this is. Too expensive. Oh, I this is too much money. You are literally saying I don't have the money for that. You are [00:56:00] proclaiming that you don't have the money for that. You ruin the money spell.

[00:56:03] Don't care how much stuff you buy later, you just ruin it. You can stay... I choose not to buy this right now because I have another priorities. This money spell, I see it like too busy, too complicated, too much stuff. I don't have the time for that. I have other priorities. So I will try to buy just these and these two, three items and do a money spell with that.

[00:56:24] And you can do that with the charm box. You can take something that I always do with my charm box, especially the charm box that I sell for other people sometimes is. If you want something very custom made, send me anything of your clothes that you are looking to throw away, because that clothes of yours that you want to throw, that have your energy because you use it a lot of times.

[00:56:46] Send me that t shirt or that hat that you have. I don't need your hair, I don't need your nails, I don't need your blood, because I have your energy in there, in something that you [00:57:00] actually willingly choose to use. And I will put that element in there, and turning the whole chamber into some kind of altar, and putting items in there, and channeling your energy in some way of sympathetic magic, and sending this back to you.

[00:57:13] When you receive a bag in your hand, you are saying I'm proclaiming these spells for me, it's made of something of me. And it's power for me. The elements that you will put in the charm bag or with what you're gonna do the charm bag is like that. You just need to choose willingly and consciously which elements are accessible for you.

[00:57:33] Something that I always say is, we have many books on crystal magic. We have many books on artificial magic. But you don't need to roam. To the store to spend all your money in all the air and they said that you are not sure if you want to use you don't need to have every piece of amethyst that you find in a store just because it's beautiful.

[00:57:54] You can't have one. One piece of amethyst is not [00:58:00] doing the work, you don't need other 100. They're not gonna do the work. Yeah. So you just try to spend. Consciously in which elements you can buy. For example, I can give you a recipe of a love spell for a charm bag with 100 different elements to put in the charm bag.

[00:58:17] I'm not saying that you need to use 100 elements. I'm saying to you, you can use two or three of these elements. And, you, you don't have in this moment the resources, like, or many other people in 2023 that don't have the resources to do a lot of stuff. Perfect. First of all, look which herbs or plants are growing around your home.

[00:58:38] Because a lot of people underrate the place where they live. They are like, oh, I can't buy this plant. Flowers and you have the garden just in front of your house. Oh, I can't find rosemary. You have rosemary in your kitchen. Oh, I can't find Cajun. You have Cajun growing in the patio. Just see which plants do you have in there.

[00:58:56] Check what plants do you have in your patio, in the pots, in the garden, [00:59:00] in the park very close to you. Figure out for which you can use all of these elements, collect some of them, and okay, I have two or three plans for money, so I can do a charm bag with these three plans. I don't need to run to the store to buy a lot of stuff.

[00:59:14] I can just use these three. Oh, I'm really in a very bad situation financially right now. Perfect. Look, what do you have in your kitchen? Probably you have olive oil. That's very expensive. And have a lot of power in there. It's, I mean, the olives represent money, good fortune, abundance. You don't literally need anything.

[00:59:33] As you can see, they take a bit of the top of the olive oil and just Rub in your hands to bring the money. That's a very good spell. You can do some, you want to do something else? Okay, take a little charm bag, and put in there some drops of olive oil, some put some rosemary. You can craft the circle around to put a way back look using just some salt from the kitchen.

[00:59:57] You craft the circle and put all the elements [01:00:00] inside. Take any flower around the garden, whatever is the flower that you find. Whatever flower is growing there is channeling your energy as a witch. You are nurturing that flower, so take that flower like a gift back from the earth and say, I'm gonna give you a bigger purpose right now because I need you, I'm gonna give you a bigger purpose.

[01:00:19] You take this flower from the garden or from the pot, from the patio. And you put in the char back with the rosemary that you find in the kitchen, with the olive oil that you find in the kitchen, with any other herbs that you find in the kitchen, and you have a perfect money spell in there that you just need to carry with you.

[01:00:34] You don't need to put gold and a bill of 100 inside of the Chambang if you don't have it. You can do that later. You can do this money spell under the promise that, Okay, I'm doing this one right now. And when this starts working, because this will work in one year, I will give you the charm bag with 100 bill inside to whatever spirit confirm me this money spell that [01:01:00] I'm doing right now.

[01:01:01] And in three years, if the spirit give me the resources for it, I'm gonna give you a charm bag with gold inside, but you need to give me the money to do it.

[01:01:09] Ashley: Yes! There's... It's just as easy as that. And I think people take for granted how important what you say is. Like you just said about like, well, don't go to the store and then say, well, I can't afford this because like you said, now it's ruined.

[01:01:23] It's really important to, some people say like, well, that positive talk doesn't always work. It doesn't, but when you're doing magic, it does. Like you have to believe it's going to work. And if you don't, if you're saying, well, I don't know, well then, okay, it's not gonna work. Like, it's all about the person doing it.

[01:01:40] You really have to be strong in that. So traditionally, this is back in the day, guys. So everything Elohim just told us is stuff you can put in your charms bag. But back in the day, in the beginning, what a lot of people, especially the enslaved people would do, they would put in paint, like they would write.

[01:01:58] Simple as this, just like what we're [01:02:00] talking about, they would write down their prayer or what they wanted and put it in the bag and carry it around with them, or, and then they would put in with like roots, herbs, like we were just talking about, flowers sometimes they would even use animal parts, graveyard dirt, some of those other things and then also if they were talking about a person, clothing, like Elohim said, or they can put You can get crazy if you want and put in the hair and all that stuff.

[01:02:23] I'm not that stuff, but that's fine There's nothing wrong with that. I'm getting nails. It's a lot for me but And then funny enough a lot of people would even charge their bags with writing down Christian or Islamic prayers They would even put those in there, too so So, a lot of the time actually, and there's been a couple, I think it was in Virginia, that they found a couple different areas where they dug up areas like where the slave quarters were and the plantations, and they found charm bags under the ground filled with different stuff, whatever the slave, if the master of the house was being [01:03:00] extra Torturous to a slave they may be praying for their downfall.

[01:03:04] They may be praying, you know for better treatment, whatever But this was the way just like we're talking about people who didn't have a lot You know were using charm bags because that's this is what we got like so this is and you know It was working for them. So it's really cool. And then one thing I also said what saw that was really neat Was in a lot of african american traditions.

[01:03:25] There's people make these quilts and the quilts have lots of meaning They would sew mojo bags charm bags into the quilt to cover themselves with these prayers with these Spells which is really cool too. They would sew symbols in there. It was very neat okay, they would also usually hide it under their clothes.

[01:03:49] They maybe kept it in their pockets Women maybe put it on the inside of their bras so people wouldn't see it But that's another way they were infusing their body energy into the bag. The bag [01:04:00] was, you know coming. On to them and it was something they would have with them all day. So all day, if you're thinking about it and you're knowing, Oh, this is going to work.

[01:04:07] This is going to work. The energy is building and building. Yeah. Yeah. And it makes it better. And it makes it. And you're keeping it

[01:04:12] Elhoim: activated with the whole flame and heat of your body. You just. Create and put in there in the cabinet something that you're cutting with you is how a lot of power in there And you're giving us more power day by day with your own energy.

[01:04:27] Ashley: Yes. Yes So this is everything. This is our short introduction to charm bags If you want to learn more about it, Ellen has a whole book about charm bags. So feel free I'm gonna put a link to the book too in the show notes so now we're on to our last section where we talk about Venezuelan folktales and they're both terrifying. So everybody So I was, so this is what happened, I was like, I'm gonna look for some folktales from Venezuela and they were all[01:05:00]

[01:05:02] We grew

[01:05:02] Elhoim: up with the stories of pirates in the coast, so we are terrifying people. Because we have these legends, a lot of legends about pirates in the Caribbean who were coming from England and they were like going around and these pirates many times were like, actually the revolutionaries in the continent.

[01:05:22] They were the good ones. Against the Imperial and the pirates were these people who have people of color or homosexuals and everybody in there, they were pirates because they were rejected for big imperial from the Big England and from the big Spain. . But we grew up with that stories.

[01:05:38] And when you go to the coast, Of Venezuela to the or you go to notable, if you go around AR Aruba or a South , you see all of these big pilot natives and ships in there. , which are very scary. But for all these are the museums actually, you can go inside and work. And when tourists see these kind of things like, okay, you are very good people,[01:06:00] what is our culture?

[01:06:01] And we have, yeah. And we have also, including a lot of folk tales, stories, and spells related with water witches from the sea who were, because the pirates, they were mostly pirates because they were, they feel rejected from the church. So they always carry with a witch of the sea in the name.

[01:06:21] Many times these witches come from the... I see Dominican or Trini that these were the three places. So they always started with a black woman, but it's like a, which with big blocks in the hair and she was always coursing people around and doing a space in the name for protection of the ratios and protection of the names and the pilots and everything else.

[01:06:45] We grow up with that kind of a story like, Oh, if you walk around that name at midnight, you will see a ghost or parents are like, we need to stay to stand up all night because you need to see the ghost and they're like, okay, normal. [01:07:00] Trauma, but thank you.

[01:07:07] Ashley: Look, you got an additional folktale that you didn't even, you weren't going to get from me. Perfect. Pirates in Venezuela. So the first one I have here is this story of La Sonia, Sayonia, Sayona so this is a story about. A beautiful woman and she was married to this guy, and the guy had, he was like a well to do guy.

[01:07:32] So she had a baby, and everything was fine, everything was great. Then one day she was swimming in the river, and she was, I don't know why this detail matters, but I guess she was naked. And she was, and this, Old man comes up and he's like, hey, and she's like, oh my god. Why are you watching me the river?

[01:07:48] He's like, no, I came here to tell you actually that your husband's sleeping with your mom So she's like what and so she gets really upset obviously because who wouldn't so she goes home and [01:08:00] she sees her husband Like in a chair sleeping with the baby They're both sleeping but she's like in such a rage that she burns the house down She just burns the whole house down.

[01:08:09] Then she gets a machete And she's, oh, also, the other awful detail is she hears her husband screaming in the house, but she burns the house down. She's angry. So then she gets a machete and she goes to her mom's house. And then she kills her mom, and while she's like, trying, attacking her mother's like, you're gonna be cursed for the rest of your life.

[01:08:27] And then her mom dies. So now, she got cursed for the rest of her life. So she walks around killing unfaithful husbands. Everywhere. And apparently, she can appear to men, usually if they're working, like, deep in the bush, in the jungle. She appears, and she starts chit chatting to them. And she's like, hey, do you wanna, be mine?

[01:08:49] And, not be with your wife and your wife sounds awful. And the guys are like, yeah, my wife's awful. Like, I don't know, I guess she only appears to straight men, I don't know. But she's like, yeah, my wife's so bad. And [01:09:00] then... And then she kills them. If you're ever working in a jungle in Venezuela and a really beautiful woman comes up to you, run.

[01:09:08] Because she's trying to murder you. Yeah, if you're a cisgendered straight man, don't talk to any beautiful women in the jungle.

[01:09:16] Elhoim: Yeah, that's the lesson of the day. Yeah,

[01:09:19] Ashley: exactly. She's trying to kill you. And the other one, which is even scarier to me, I don't know. It's called El Silbón, the Whistler.

[01:09:29] Elhoim: You are, you remain mine.

[01:09:31] I literally, I was using the translator because I was speaking to tell you the story.

[01:09:45] This is. Especially if you live in the Amazonas. It's like, very scary because you listen to that every night. When you are in Nahuatl, you're just like, ah, that's the silvó around. You're just like...

[01:09:58] Ashley: It's okay, you guys. [01:10:00] It's terrifying. Okay, so the story I read was there was like two kind of different versions, but the ones that I read, but the one that I read mostly was like, there was this boy, and he was spoiled.

[01:10:14] In this story that I read, he was a spoiled little boy. Not, okay, not a boy. Let's say he's like a teenager at this point, I guess, and he was spoiled. And he told his father, I want to eat some soup, but I want the soup to have deer in it, because deer is my favorite thing to eat in the soup. So the dad was like, okay, fine, I'm going.

[01:10:33] And so he goes out and starts hunting for the deer. So the dad took so long, and this boy is so spoiled and awful, that the boy goes after him and finds the dad. The dad was like, oh my god, I've been out here for, like, Hours looking for this deal dear and the boy was like you suck and he shot his dad, right?

[01:10:52] Terrible Oh my god, so then the boy because he's a psycho this kid. Yeah, he cuts up his dad and then [01:11:00] brings him back to his house And gives the mom the meat and it's like, Oh mom, I got a deer. And the mom's like, where's your dad? And he's like, don't worry about that. Here's some meat. And then the mom is, she's like, this meat don't smell right.

[01:11:15] And he's like, don't worry about it. Then she sees the father's head and she flips out, right? She's like, Oh my God. And then she like freaks out. And the boy she curses the boy and like tells him to get out. Oh my god, it's so scary. So then his grandfather finds out what happened and he orders the boy to be tied to a post in the middle of, like, the town and lashed him until he was almost dead, basically.

[01:11:44] But his wounds were then cleaned with Listen to this. This is horrifying. They cleaned his wounds with alcohol. You know when you get a little salt in your paper cut how much that hurts? Yup. Yes! Okay. So they beat this boy so bad. They cleaned his wounds with alcohol, chili [01:12:00] peppers, and lemon juice. And then they put a sack full of his father's remains on his wounded back.

[01:12:07] Then he was released. Into the wild because he was still alive. They didn't kill him and He let him go and then he set two starving dogs on him and his grandfather Condemned him to carry the bones of his father for all eternity. It is terrifying Apparently he's like A long, skinny guy with like, like tattered clothes and like a straw, straw hat.

[01:12:32] And he walks around and he's like, Elohim just said he whistles. And there's this, I even found there's a specific, okay, for you musicians out there, there's a specific whistle. Even they say it's C D E F G A B. And in that order, and it's rising in tone from F and then lowers to B. I was like, this is very specific.

[01:12:55] Elhoim: Yeah, we have songs. We have songs with that sound. Oh no.[01:13:00]

[01:13:03] It's one of the most common stories that we have. Actually, Silbon means the whistler, the person who makes a whistler. When you are in the woods or sometimes you are in the crossroads in the night, you listen to that whistler going around and you're like, okay, just my imagination. But many times you listen to the whistler over and over.

[01:13:21] And something that happens a lot with tourists that are not, like, very used. To this kind of phantasmagoric spectacle, which is very common. When tourists arriving, they are, they want to go in the night and see the stars, and they have this very idealized version of the woods in the night with the stars.

[01:13:41] That is safe and everything, and it's not safe, of snakes. And they live in the wilderness, and it's a very specific wizard, very difficult to do, because I know a lot of people who can wizard, I can't. Many people in Venezuela try to simulate [01:14:00] that same whistle, and it's super complicated. But you listen to that sound over and over, and you listen to how it's coming closer to you.

[01:14:06] And you're in the crossroads in the night, and you listen to the whistle coming every time closer, turning louder. So in a moment you're so nervous that you just run. And the few people that have, way to see something, that have even been in the news, they have death, like, days later. So that has given like more weight to the folk story.

[01:14:29] This is what is like the most. I think that is the most popular folk story with us. We also had the Ayana. Ayana was a woman who ate children. She eat them and she just keep their hands, the hands of the children, in a bag with her that she carrying around. All the time. She's very scary with all of these big tits.

[01:14:52] It's the common story that we have for, if you don't eat your vegetables, Ayana will come for you. And she will eat [01:15:00] you, and leave just your hands. And you're like, okay mom, I'm gonna eat my vegetables.

[01:15:08] Ashley: I know all these stories like so a lot of those folk stories right are like to scare kids But I'm like and that yes, you don't want your hands cut off by this lady. Who's just eat your broccoli guys Yeah,

[01:15:22] so yeah, so this whistler it was That I, even when I saw it described, I was like, wow, how do people know the tone? But thank you for explaining that. Like people even hear it and they can't even mimic it. So apparently like you were just talking about when it comes closer. So what it says here, and you can tell me if this is correct, but it says when the whistling is.

[01:15:40] sounds close, it's okay, because it means that the whistler is far away. But when the whistling sounds distant, it means that he's nearby. And then also, it's told that the whistling foretells one's own death. So sometimes people can hear it, but sometimes also people can just hear it anytime. So many [01:16:00] inhabitants of Los Laos, I guess The plains, it was, it's called,

[01:16:05] Elhoim: Loso.

[01:16:06] It's like a big it's like a big ballet in the mountains. Okay,

[01:16:11] Ashley: okay. Yes. So they say they've seen it, a lot of people, especially in the summer and in times when the like. When there's like a forest fire, but like, you know controlled fires People see when the trees are down and the foliage is down that they can see him That he also sits in the trees and he gathers dust in his hands But it's mainly on rainy and humid days that he wanders he hungers for death and is eager to punish drunkards womanizers But sometimes innocent people.

[01:16:42] And then it also says, oh my gosh, this is terrifying, He sucks the alcohol out of drunkards through their navel when it finds them alone and he tears womanizers to pieces, removes their bones and puts them in his sack where he keeps all the remains of his father. Some people say that he's huge, like he could [01:17:00] be like 10 feet tall, and he moves among the trees, and he's whistling, and he's old, tattered clothes, and he's tall and thin, I said with a hat already, so apparently he can sometimes appear by houses in certain nights, he can drop his hat, his sack at the ground, and he can just start counting his bones sometimes because that's what he does.

[01:17:21] I guess he has time. Okay. So if he comes by your house and he's counting his bones and you hear it. It's okay, just don't go outside. But apparently it's if he's counting his bones, but you don't hear it, but he is counting the bones, it means he's gonna come get some more bones.

[01:17:38] He's gonna kill somebody in your house. If

[01:17:39] Elhoim: he's counting them, it's because he feels that the bag have less weight. Oh, okay. And he need more or he lost something so he will look for more. So you listen like when you are in a old house and you listen the woods moving that something is falling. You are in your house and you listen that something is falling over the roof over and over and over.

[01:17:59] [01:18:00] And it's the bones falling in the room. And something that you listen to that and then they say don't go wrong outside to see the roof because if he knows that you are seeing him, he will come for you immediately, he will not let you alive. So when you listen to that sound in the roof, you need to stay in the home.

[01:18:19] And that is more frustrating because you continue listening to that thing falling over and over for hours.

[01:18:25] Ashley: Oh my god, this is so scary. As much as I always learn all these terrifying facts about countries like I think I always have this thing because I love the food. I want to go get the food, but I also don't want to hear the whistler because I'm scared of him. I don't know. I'll figure it out. We

[01:18:41] Elhoim: have also, we have also La Sayona, which is similar to La Llorona.

[01:18:47] Because, in Latin American cultures we have all of these things about white woman in the crossroad. Every country have their own version. La Llorona is the most popular one. We have La Sayona. It's this woman [01:19:00] who, she was very drunk, and was probably possessed by the devil because people, some people had a theory that she was a witch in the woods, who part with the devil, and the devil one day just possessed her.

[01:19:11] Because she was selling her soul in exchange for food and money to feed her children, but one day the devil just come to like, you owe me, so I will possess you, and being possessed, she killed her children. She has like four children and she put them all in the water and let them die in there. When the devil comes out of her, she can't find her children.

[01:19:34] She don't remember what happens. So she goes out every night looking for her children. And you listen to her when you are in the street signal. You listen to this woman crying, Where are my children? Over and over. And she's crying very loud. And you sometimes you... Find, like, the the the sign of her feet in the street.

[01:19:56] Like, oh, she was around here. It's one of those [01:20:00] many stories that we have. Always is some kind of vengeful spirit coming in the night looking for something. We don't have many good stories about good spirits. We just have, like, two.

[01:20:13] Ashley: Also, and I didn't write this one down, but there was one. Where it was like this spirit but it's a woman, but like her face is facing her back. I don't know if you've ever... Yeah. Yeah. I know.

[01:20:26] Elhoim: She walked backwards. So when you are, so when you are lost in the streets or in the woods or in the river and you find the, or in

[01:20:39] the sand and going in a direction and you think that's the direction. It's the contrary because she walks backwards. All the time, to confuse people, to make them go to her trap, so she can eat them, and eat her faces. She just take their faces, and after some time, the face just [01:21:00] comes down, so she need a new face.

[01:21:02] Ashley: Okay, that's great. That's also terrifying. Oh

[01:21:09] my god, Venezuelan folklore is so fun and scary. With that beautiful story about eating faces, that comes to the end of the show. Elohim, this has been so fun. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you. Do you want to tell people where they can find you like on the internet and all that kind of stuff or anywhere

[01:21:32] Elhoim: Okay.

[01:21:32] You can f look for my name. It's very difficult to write down, especially with my accent. I can describe to you. E L H O I M, I think. . . I think that is the way I look for the, I am most of the times on Instagram. I am ally on social media, but Instagram is like my main. Play where I contact and interact with everybody and just throwing stuff there like practically every [01:22:00] day.

[01:22:00] Music, positive thoughts, whatever, keep on, like, raising the value of how much is possible in this world. My new book comes out in December 8th. It's Dream Witchery. Please continue supporting this amazing podcast and this amazing host, because we in this community, we don't have many safe places.

[01:22:21] We don't have many open spaces. We don't have many well informed hosts. We need to support the few that we have, so please support this podcast and the hosts as much as you can. Please, if you enjoyed this episode, please share it with your friends via WhatsApp, Instagram stories, Facebook, whatever. If you don't like this episode, but like another one, share that episode.

[01:22:45] Please support the podcast because we need it. We need more spaces like this one. Oh, you're so sweet.

[01:22:51] Ashley: Oh my god, I adore you. You're... Same. You're so sweet. Oh my gosh, I love that. Thank you so much. This [01:23:00] is sweet. So guys, this is the end of the show. This has been so so great so this is dying with the divine if you don't know what you're listening to and you can again You can follow us instagram facebook tiktok.

[01:23:10] Also. I sometimes i'm on there. I'm trying to be on there more but please give us a rating a review if you don't mind on wherever you listen to us and you can email me Like I said at dime with the divine pod dot gmail. com and if you want to follow me ashley I'm Sankofa hss, that's SS A N K O F A H S and Sankofa Healing Sanctuary on Facebook.

[01:23:31] I'm gonna put a link to all EM'S stuff and this episode actually, we're recording it months in advance, but it's gonna come out around the time his book comes out, so you'll be fine. Okay? You'll be able to get it . Yeah, all the links are gonna be in the show notes. Check them out. Thank you so much for being here, and we'll see you guys next week.

[01:23:48] Bye.