The Episode Where I Got to Talk to a Progressive Pastor

[00:00:00] Ashley: . So hi everybody. Thank you so much for coming back for another week.

[00:00:25] And I hope you're having a great week. And if you're not, I hope your week gets a lot better soon. So today we have a guest and she has fabulous glasses that I love. This is not a visual podcast, so you can't see. Just trust me. She is Reverend Amber Kearney. She's a progressive Christian pastor on a mission to love and affirm those. The church has cast out link arms with those that are breaking down capitalists and patriarchal strongholds and help abolish systems of power that oppress trans black, brown queer, and otherwise marginalized [00:01:00] communities.

[00:01:00] She's a bisexual pastor that serves at Riverside Church at Park and King as an associate minister on Sunday mornings, but prefers to be in the streets more than be the pulpit. She's a mother, pastor, partner, and lover of books and thrift stores. Oh, I love that. I love a thrift store too. Thrift store. So how are you, Amber?

[00:01:22] Amber: I'm wonderful. Yeah, I'm doing good. It's a little rainy here otherwise, pretty good.

[00:01:27] Ashley: Awesome. Okay, where do we start? Cuz there's a lot going on here.

[00:01:31] Amber: I told my husband, I was like, I basically just trauma dumped everything about myself in there. So we had a lot of material to work with.

[00:01:39] Ashley: We'll see where it goes. You're totally fine. No, so I think, and this is just before we even start, so I like saw you on Instagram and I was just looking at your pictures and what you do and I was like, oh my gosh. Like what a positive figure. First of all, I love your hair. You have the best hair, you have fantastic beautiful hair.

[00:01:58] And then, so it's just stalking [00:02:00] you on Instagram as one does. And I was just like, oh wow. Like you, first of all, you have a beautiful smile. You just look like somebody who I'm like, if I had a problem I'd talk to her like, you

[00:02:12] Amber: got a problem, yo, I'll solve it.

[00:02:15] Check out the hook while the DJ revolves it. Exactly.

[00:02:18] Ashley: Yeah. Like that. Like that. That's exactly how it would go and it would be fantastic.

[00:02:23] Amber: So that, that's the start and end of my musical career done now.

[00:02:30] Ashley: It was good while it lasted. I enjoyed it. But I guess my first question for you of all questions is what made you want to become a pastor?

[00:02:42] Associate minister? I don't know the levels, but yeah. Or

[00:02:45] Amber: like wizards, we've got levels. It's I'm like Third maid, I'm trying to get up there. No. Sometimes when my my senior pastor isn't around, I park in his parking spot and I'm like, I'm the pastor now.[00:03:00]

[00:03:00] Talk and film him. Yes. So basically when I was younger I really wanted to do ministry cuz I. I had an opportunity to speak at an event and I'm terrified of speaking in public, but getting up there and just sharing, I just like forgot that I was talking in front of like a hundred people and I just really enjoyed it and I've always enjoyed helping people.

[00:03:29] And like my mom was a church secretary, so I was always doing stuff and I was like, I really feel like I could do this. But I was Southern Baptist. And if you know anything about Southern Baptist, they don't really I don't think they like women at all, but that's my beef with them.

[00:03:44] There's

[00:03:44] Ashley: I was just thinking this today, I was like, there's a lot of people who claim to be like, and I'm talking about Red pill people and like I know I should have had this revelation before, but I was like, wait, you guys really don't like women?

[00:03:55] Like you guys are all like, I'm so straight. I'm like, I don't think you are [00:04:00] for real. Eight ladies. And I think if you guys had what the parts I guess you like them to have, I guess you would just date men. Like I just, okay. Anyway, just do, let's go back to No, that's, I'm fine. I'm saying just be yourself.

[00:04:13] It's fine. No problem.

[00:04:16] Amber: Yeah, so I, about 16 came out to the not came out to the church cuz but I came to my church and said, I wanna go into ministry and a bunch of lay people. Because I'm, like we are Southern Baptists. So there's like tent, revival, the fried chicken, like all that shit.

[00:04:37] And so I like show up the last day and I'm like, I feel called to ministry. And they're like, yes, girl, do it. Boss, queen, whatever. And I was set to babysit for my pastor later that week and he was like, Hey friend I know you're coming over this time. Can you come a little bit early? The wife and I want to talk to you.

[00:04:59] And I [00:05:00] was like, cool. Do sleep schedules, like whatever, like I thought it was that. And they were like, oh, it is sinful for you to want to be in ministry. You should marry, I. A pastor and that'll be your ministry. Pardon? Exactly. I'm like, the fuck, what is this? I've heard people curse on your podcast.

[00:05:22] That's okay.

[00:05:22] Ashley: Oh yeah. It's totally fine. You can curse

[00:05:24] Amber: as much. Just this comes out of me and, sorry. No problem. Yeah. So for 20 years I was just like wandering around, just doing things like a ministry. Which was like, the thing oh, I could do that and it would be like a ministry.

[00:05:39] Oh, I could do this. Be like a ministry. Because I was subversive, even though I didn't realize that's what was going on. Cause I was like, I'm not being pastor. I see how pastors treat their wise. Like, how No, I know. So when I got here at Riverside in Jacksonville like 20 years later my senior pastor was like, you've been, [00:06:00] you keep saying you've been doing things like ministry.

[00:06:02] Why don't you just do ministry? I never saw myself necessarily as a pastor. I just wanted to help people. And they were like, yeah I'm really trying to build this church up and You feel, call the ministry and I need to fill a role here, so why don't we do this? And so I've been on staff for July will be a year.

[00:06:22] Oh, great. It's been great. So yeah. Oh my gosh.

[00:06:27] Ashley: I can't, okay.

[00:06:31] Amber: Yeah,

[00:06:31] Ashley: I can't believe somebody. If you're saying, and this goes for like any, I think any kind of faith or whatnot, I feel like if somebody's oh my God, I'm so called to do this thing. Because God has spoke to my heart, or I just feel this or whatnot.

[00:06:48] That's no problem. Why would anybody , is it that important that you have a penis to do it? Like I really don't.

[00:06:58] Amber: Apparently it is. If [00:07:00] you've seen the news lately,

[00:07:02] Ashley: We'll get to it. That is a dark joke though. Yeah, it's, but it's, I'm just like, you were saying, no this is something that has touched me, something that I feel strongly about.

[00:07:12] And for someone to be like you know what you should do, you should shut the hell up and No. And marry somebody who does that so then you can serve him.

[00:07:23] Amber: They specifically told me you should marry a pastor and raise his children.

[00:07:28] And I like, very strongly remember the, his children. I'm like, what the fuck? I carried those kids in my body and I would push them out of the smallest hole in my body. Hello. And they're his children. The fuck is that? What is that?

[00:07:42] Ashley: And that, you know what that reminds me of? I just, this like two weeks?

[00:07:45] No, this last weekend I watched the Documentary about the Duggers, the shiny happy people and yes. I watched it and in that, and, my, I have a friend who's an ex Mormon and she said the same thing in Mormonism that it's like [00:08:00] there is be the people in your life. The hierarchy is if you're a woman, it's like you, and then you serve your husband who serves God.

[00:08:07] And so it's your husband before God, which is insane to me. Yeah. I'm like, so just some. And it doesn't matter what the gender of your partner is, I'm, you shouldn't worship your partner. Nobody's partners should be over like them like that. Like it's just partner. Like partner. Yeah.

[00:08:21] You're supposed to help me. Alright. It's, yeah,

[00:08:28] Amber: Have you seen Bill got's like the umbrella model? It's yes, she, that pisses me off so much. Oh my God. Every time I see that, I'm like, I gotta go punch someone. Now. The hell is that on your page? Get that off.

[00:08:42] Ashley: What is, and that okay. And then we're gonna go off the rails because there's so many things that I have talked to you about that I've been thinking about for the past couple days.

[00:08:51] And since we brought up we, I have a couple questions. Sure. Okay. The [00:09:00] obsession with the conservative, and I just wanna see what you think about this. Like the conservative obsession with sex. I don't understand like what, and we'll talk about this later too, like the message of Christ, which is what Christianity is based off of.

[00:09:19] If anybody doesn't know. And if you didn't know that, I wouldn't be surprised. Like it's, I'm not trying to be funny, I'm serious. No. Yeah.

[00:09:27] Cause

[00:09:27] Amber: of the way, it seems like it's about other things.

[00:09:29] Ashley: It seems like it's about everything. Eving else and like I always say, Jesus is my whole boy. Like culture or something.

[00:09:35] Yeah. Yeah. He was my first like introduction into spirituality was Jesus, but I just don't understand, understand why people are so obsessed with sex like, That's how, okay, first of all, it's like biologically, like that's how people are made. So let's just stop it there.

[00:09:50] Like we don't have to worry about who's doing it, when they're doing it, who they're doing it with. If you are the right gender when you do it, like who gives shit literally to [00:10:00] make people. And at some people, at some point people realized it was fun and it felt good, so they kept doing it.

[00:10:04] So why are we so worried?

[00:10:06] Amber: Yeah, I know. And it's so funny how they really confuse gender and sexuality. Because I've explained to my oldest is eight. And she knows what all of the l gt Qia she has a basic understanding of what everything is. And we still haven't had the big like birds and the bees like sex talk with her.

[00:10:25] She doesn't because gender and sexuality aren't the same thing. And I have to explain that to people all the time. Like why is it always, our church is very affirming. Like we we make sure. Because so many people say all are welcome, but there's always an asterisk somewhere that is hidden.

[00:10:43] So we're very upfront and really careful. Like when you get in the door, you know exactly where we stand. We're not gonna take you to coffee to explain things. We're not gonna say, oh, meet with a pastor. We are very explicit. And I've still even had to explain that to people. Like, why do we have to talk about sex [00:11:00] so much?

[00:11:00] And we're not talking about sex, we're talking about gender. Yes. And this is why it's so important, because so many people have had that like glass wall experience where they feel welcome, but then when they try and move within the church, they like slam into a glass wall. Oh, but you're a lesbian so you can't do children's ministry.

[00:11:20] Oh, you're, you're non-binary. And we're a little bit nervous about you teaching the Bible study. So you can sit in the pews and you can give us your money, but you can't actually go anywhere with it. And so just we really, so we're very explicit and because of that, it racists questions, people get that confused, that gender, sexuality and I wish we talked about sex more in church, honestly.

[00:11:42] Maybe make it a little more fun. I'm saying. And there's,

[00:11:47] Ashley: so I feel like so many. There's so many positive ways. I was thinking about this too, when I was watching the Dugger documentary. There's so many positive ways to talk about sex. And explain [00:12:00] oh, even the emotional part of it that like, I feel like it's very important to explain to people especially kids, people who are gonna have sex growing up.

[00:12:11] Like that. Sex brings up a lot of emotions and it's important to explore those emotions because I do think that people exploit those emotions. If you, if somebody has sex with the wrong person, that other person may exploit how they may be feeling after that sexual experience. They may think this is love.

[00:12:28] And then the person will. Maybe they could become abusive and they may say this is how people treat people. You know what I'm trying to say? Yeah. Yeah. And I, go ahead. I'm sorry. No,

[00:12:36] Amber: No, you're fine. It's just, it sounds like you're, we're on the same page. It's Yeah. Being as open as what's age appropriate.

[00:12:44] Yes. And just not being like my parents. My mom like, couldn't even hardly say the word sex. She was so nervous around things. And I'm like, I've just been trying to be real careful that I'm like, just okay, this is fine. We can talk about this. [00:13:00] Yeah. And I think, as you, they, people get older, like it should be like, I want my kids and I want my youth and my children's, not my children's ministry.

[00:13:10] Cause I don't do children's ministry, but a youth ministry. There's obviously, like there's some things there because it's parents and whatnot, but Of course, yeah. General, generally speaking, like I want people to feel like they could come to me and ask questions and not their dumb ass friends who don't know, they know the same amount of information that they do and it's like they had me convince that because I drank Mountain Dew, I was gonna get breast cancer when I was in.

[00:13:35] Ashley: Your friends tell you the dumbest shit. I remember when I was like, in sixth grade, I found out some girl had like sex with her boyfriend, but who? The girl was older than us. I was like, oh God. They're like, yeah, but it was the first time so she can't get pregnant, so it's not a big deal.

[00:13:49] And I believe that for years. I was like, oh, okay cool.

[00:13:53] Amber: Yeah. You get a freebie, like a free pass the first time. Just check it out, that's what painful. So [00:14:00] you know, might as well.

[00:14:01] Ashley: That's what everyone said. I swear I was maybe like a junior in high school. I found out that's not true, that you can get pregnant anytime.

[00:14:11] I was like no. So and so told me. Five years ago that they were like, no, Ashley, that's a lie. Is a damn, that's crazy. That's how I was

[00:14:20] Amber: about drugs. So growing up with the DARE program, I was convinced that if I tried any drug the first time, I would die. Yeah. Literally would die. So I got offered all kinds of shit in college and I was like, I don't

[00:14:33] Ashley: wanna die.

[00:14:34] I'm going to, you guys didn't go to dare you didn't find out you're gonna die from this. Oh my. I thought that like the minute you smoked Tweed you just became like a heroin addict. I was petrified. I had friends who smoked weed and I was like, you guys, I don't wanna be strung out. I can't go home if I like it.

[00:14:58] My parents are immigrants, they'll [00:15:00] kill me. I

[00:15:02] Amber: do this. It's, what's great about it too is that in college when I was younger, there was just drugs everywhere. And now I'm just like an anxious mom who'd like, like a little cannabis and I'm like, I look like one of those Cop n people.

[00:15:15] Like I don't even know how to find it. And I'm too anxious to go into one of the doctor's offices and be like, I have anxiety. Can I just get a card? So I'm just out here. Raw dog in life, just

[00:15:28] Ashley: yes. Raw dog in life. That's my favorite thing. I feel like a lot of us are just doing that

[00:15:36] Amber: every day. America Healthcare System is in the toilet.

[00:15:40] What is it? So oh my God, we're all just doing it. You know this capital.

[00:15:44] Ashley: Oh yeah. And oh, that was another thing. Not about the American healthcare system cuz that's another rant for another day. But like your church first of all, I'm gonna read this statement that was on your church's website because I really loved it.

[00:15:58] It just is, our community [00:16:00] welcomes all the certain and the doubtful, the excluded and the included rich, poor, and in between, divorced, partnered, singled, widowed, atheist, agnostic, Buddhist, Catholic, Protestant, Islamic, Hindu, Jewish or nothing straight. LGBTQIA plus African-American, Asian, Latino, white citizens and guests.

[00:16:23] I love that because when you say, like you said before, some people say a welcome all and that's because they want that $5. But you guys really are like, we welcome all you and especially if you're in one of these categories, and if you're not even still come if you feel like it, yeah. I love that statement.

[00:16:43] Amber: So just like straight white, Christian heteronormal, like that is the people that is the default box. Like that's the NPC character, like most, yeah. Most people like default in our society to that. So I'll I don't feel as strongly that I [00:17:00] need to tell those people that you're welcome here.

[00:17:02] You are welcome here. But for other people outside of that for an immigrant or for an atheist or somebody that's I kind am halfway in the church and halfway out and I've had some religious trauma. Am I gonna be welcome here? I'm a trans woman. Am I gonna be welcome here?

[00:17:15] Those kinds of people really don't. Operate within that default setting. And they don't know because everything caters to that group. So we just, like I said, wanted to be very explicit. And so far I feel like it's working out pretty well. Yeah. I love that.

[00:17:31] Ashley: And you touched on the fact that first of all, it makes a lot of sense to me too because I like, even I feel be because I'm black, a lot of places I go my first question is are there gonna be any other black people there?

[00:17:47] Cause I'm always like, I don't know if I'm gonna walk in and everyone's gonna stare at me, or if it's not gonna be a big deal. Because ah,

[00:17:56] Amber: real and it's nerveracking real. It's a real fear.

[00:17:58] Ashley: Yeah. And there's, yeah, there's always [00:18:00] a fear of being like, People being suspicious of me or it's just like a thing when I go places.

[00:18:09] Most, a lot of black people experience that. Like Absolutely. And then same with other groups of people have different reasons, because, people may, especially in a church, and I'm not part of the L G B T community, but I can ex, I can obviously think about how uncomfortable it might be in certain circumstances to walk into places like that when maybe you do just wanna go and like worship with other people.

[00:18:34] But you might think, oh, these people are gonna look at me and maybe I don't look super heteronormative, man, woman, whatever. And they're gonna think something so I can't imagine that feeling either, it, to, to have that on your website, I think is so important. And to have somebody like you, who isn't fitting this, like one way of being is so important to people who do maybe feel like that. Maybe they say [00:19:00] I don't hate Christianity. Maybe I hate, maybe I wasn't treated well wherever I was, but it doesn't mean I hate my faith or whatever, I think that's so important. Yeah.

[00:19:10] Amber: I grew up I grew up Southern Baptist.

[00:19:12] I grew up homeschooled like a part of the whole culture and really deconstructed hard. About maybe six years ago. And it just kept, snowballing and rolling and I feel pretty settled now, but I also want to always like, learn and grow and I'm sure I'll change, over the next year and two, whatever.

[00:19:31] But for me, I just know that there's so many people that were harmed by the church and they that one foot in they haven't lost their connection to the divine. And what they know is church, but church is also deeply hurt them. And I wanna be somebody that can help bridge that gap and be like, if you still want this, it's for you.

[00:19:53] And also like I have great friends who don't want it anymore. They're like, I'm spiritual. Or I'm not spiritual at all and I [00:20:00] don't do church anymore. But like your community. I'll come over and eat dinner with you guys. If you guys are having a meal or a barbecue or something I'll hang out with you.

[00:20:08] I've got friends that come and do various things with us, and they don't, they're like, the God stuff's not for us, but we feel like your community's safe and we'll hang out with you because, some of your congregants are really cool. And that's fine too. I don't feel any, I no longer feel it's necessary to try and win people over and get them to stay in church or whatever, I think.

[00:20:31] People connect with the divine, however they're going to do it or not do it, and that's okay. Which is like totally different than how I was raised. I was raised like Tuesday night, go out and win people for the Lord bullshit. And it just causes so much trauma for people and. For myself, but also for the people you talk to and creates this unnecessary power imbalance.

[00:20:55] And it's just gross now to me. Yeah. Yeah, [00:21:00]

[00:21:00] Ashley: that's, yeah, that's amazing. I love how accepting you are of anybody's place where they are in their faith journey or lack thereof. And that's what's important. It's isn't, aren't we all just supposed to this sounds so stupid, but aren't we all supposed to get along is the point, Yeah, if you have a specific faith grade, if you have none at all, no problem. Let's all just be cool. Let's literally, yeah. In the words of Luann from Real House of New York, can we all just be cool? Don't be all uncool. That is so wonderful. And it's just and for some people church is literally just community and that's what they need. Yeah. You know what I mean? They, yeah. Maybe the God stuff isn't for them. That's no problem. They're just like, oh, like you said, your congregants are cool. Or maybe I've made some friends here and I just wanna chill with them and eat some food.

[00:21:53] That's cool. Like we have a place we can commute.

[00:21:56] Amber: Yeah. Yeah. I, so like Jesus [00:22:00] to me is like this, like he was like a Palestinian Jew who was very radical first time. And I think it's really significant that the first time that he speaks publicly is like the Sermon on the Mount. And so I, a lot of the things he talks about caring for the poor and that like justice is such a central, integral part of the ministry work that he did.

[00:22:24] And when he teaches his disciples how to pray Jesus talks about God, that there'll be may earth look like heaven. And that sort of become my mantra is like, how can I make the world around me look a little bit like what I think heaven would look like, which would be, more equitable that, racial vi violence wouldn't happen, that l g lgbtq violence wouldn't be happening.

[00:22:47] That everybody would get along and we'd all be cool. Yeah. And I think that's important for me. You cannot, if you're a Christian, and this doesn't speak to other people's face but for me, Christianity [00:23:00] doesn't happen with, without the work of justice. And it's become just like an integral part of My faith.

[00:23:06] It's been really nice landing here at this church cuz we do a lot of that kind of work. Churches do a lot of mercy ministry which looks more like making sandwiches for homeless people or giving out clothes writing checks for things. And I think that's important too, but I think justice goes upstream and says, okay, where is this broken and how do we fix systemic qual inequalities?

[00:23:29] And I don't know why I'm rambling on about this, what I got excited about. No,

[00:23:34] Ashley: it's, no, this is so important. I think that we too, like it's super good for you to have a food drive and to hand out food on Thanksgiving. Nobody's ever seen that and I always talk about like my, so my mom grew up Seventh Day Adventist and they're very strict about certain things.

[00:23:52] So she's one of those people who's I really like Jesus, but like I'm not into all these rules. So I just pray and like chill, [00:24:00] but like I don't need all of this. Oh yeah.

[00:24:03] Amber: She's this

[00:24:03] Ashley: is a lot. But like my mom, she grew up like her family was very poor and they got the food basket from the church on the holidays cuz they were the ones who needed it and it was great.

[00:24:14] But like you are saying, I always think about these things like, Yeah, why don't we do more work about like changing laws and helping be unhoused and like doing those things or they're, they, okay, this is getting a little into some controversial cons territory. But, ministering to, that's where I live.

[00:24:32] Yeah. Ministering to women about how you shouldn't have sex. How you shouldn't have sex. How you shouldn't have sex. And then like when they get pregnant and they're like, okay, I had got pregnant. I don't wanna have an abortion. And they're like, absolutely not. You crazy person. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:24:49] And then if they get pregnant, stop screaming at them. If they, they make a decision for themselves and saying, I'm not equipped to have this child.

[00:24:57] Why are you mad at them for that? Yeah. They're making a healthy [00:25:00] decision for themselves. Absolutely. And the child. Yeah. And they're saying, this is not okay for me and I don't want to do this. Okay, great. Like abortion healthcare.

[00:25:07] Amber: Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Hello? Yeah, and I think it's so interesting that we've been doing this for oh, so long, right?

[00:25:16] It's been like the sixties or seventies when, Roe v. Wade initially. Was held up in court. And since then there's been so many think tanks that have said, Hey, do you want to not have abortions? Here's a slew of things that you can handle, and then you have less abortions. And again, like I said, abortions, healthcare, you do what you want to with your body.

[00:25:37] That is autonomy and all the things. Also if they really cared about that, if that was the thing they really did actually care about that, then they would handle all these other issues that poverty, inequality and housing, the, rising costs of food. Even climate change issues, like so many things impact the reason why birthing people choose [00:26:00] not to have kids.

[00:26:01] And. Those are all valid, but they could also be looked at systemically. And we've done that research. It would be so easy to pass laws, to fix things and help people. But to me doesn't seem like it's actually the goal. The goal seems more about control. And I know that's controversial, but that's my hot take

[00:26:22] Ashley: on this podcast.

[00:26:23] It's not controversial. It's fact. Because, so speaking of control, my next thing that I was thinking about this is just gonna be a conversation today, everybody. So don't get on me. Cause I think about also when it comes to the church, I always think about okay, control, controlling, birthing people's bodies, like you said.

[00:26:40] And they also control of what they've d I was talking to somebody else, oh, I talked to my fiance about this too. Yeah. And if you go to West Africa, this is where my dad is from, where my fiancee is from West Africa. Also, like you go to church there, people are crazy into church. Like they love Jesus with a fervor, right?

[00:26:57] Yeah. Yeah. But again, [00:27:00] then they use it to demonize each other. We demonize our indigenous religion because apparently it's bad now. And but like I always think of like how

[00:27:12] Amber: colonized become like, yeah,

[00:27:14] Ashley: yeah. How so many countries used Christianity to do the colonizing and then to sell people, like actually Jesus loves you, but not as much as he loves me because you are less than me.

[00:27:27] And that's how I'm gonna use this religion thing and I'm gonna make you have to believe it so much that you're gonna demonize your own people and your own ancestors because Yeah, and I'm just like, I would, I always say this, when I die, I have to find Jesus. Cuz we have to have a convo like cuz I'm like, sir.

[00:27:45] You know what they're talking about you down there? Like the shit is wild down there. Like they're saying all sorts of shit that you didn't say and he's gonna be like, bet. And I'm going like, yes, it's wacka doodle ties. It's [00:28:00] crazy down there. Jesus. I swear to God they saying, you said all this shit and they didn't even write that in your book.

[00:28:06] And he's I know I never said that shit.

[00:28:10] Amber: What the fuck? Off the fucking.

[00:28:18] Ashley: Exactly. He's you should probably like, remember I died for all your sins. I might be taking some of that back. Cause so of people are doing a lot and I can't

[00:28:30] Amber: doing the most and not even in a good way. Oh my gosh. So sometimes I'll tell you a secret that it's not gonna be a secret now cuz you know the podcast, but that's okay.

[00:28:44] But sometimes, like I love my job so much and there's so much that I would do Absolutely. For free, like ministry. But like some, sometimes when people are butt holes, I just think, oh I, this is why I'm getting paid. It's like [00:29:00] this specific complaint. I'm gonna imagine that your money is what I feeding my family this week.

[00:29:07] Absolutely. Cause

[00:29:08] Ashley: this is dumb.

[00:29:10] Amber: Yeah. Just people just like that. People are the best part of my work and they are also the worst part of all my work. And sometimes it can be the same

[00:29:23] Ashley: person 100%, so I know cause and also think so many people are a product of what they heard and, okay, this is my other, okay.

[00:29:36] My big gripe too. I have a gripe everybody. It's, there's probably not this Ashley's gripe. It was one of my many gripes. Like we are, and I think I said this before in a different episode, I was like, we are in an age , in our country, in the United States, most people can read our lit, our literacy rate's very high.

[00:29:57] Okay? So if you are like, [00:30:00] The Bible says this. I'm like, you can look it up. Yeah. It's Google. The Bible is Google it. It's being, there's apps. It's being sold everywhere. If you haven't heard. You can buy a bookstore. So when people say all these things, I'm like, quote it, tell me where it says it.

[00:30:16] And they're like, that's not the point. Like what the and I'm So it's all that talk, first of all, people who are Christians who say stuff like that, it's not helping your case because this is why a lot of people don't trust people like that. Cuz you can't even back it up. Yeah. With whatever you're saying.

[00:30:36] And if you're using your faith to be hateful, why would people wanna be a part of it? They're like, oh, those are those stinky people who don't like anybody. I don't wanna hang out with them.

[00:30:46] Amber: They're mean for real. Yeah. Yeah. It's so interesting to me too, is that they'll look at the Bible and they'll say, like the, it's a plain text.

[00:30:54] So they'll pick out a couple passages that talk about women or gay people and they do [00:31:00] not wanna hear the historical context of those verses Thank, they don't wanna break this out. But then there's 2000 verses that say give all your money to the poor and stop hoarding wealth and take care of one another.

[00:31:12] And widows and immigrants like should be on your roster for taking care of people. And they're suddenly very committed to just oh, the historical context. And that's like that, this was just a parable about heaven and God did not want us to actually give any of our wealth to the poor and like fix.

[00:31:29] Justice issues. That's just, that's a whole, it's a sidebar story that's mean something else. And I'm like, you couldn't do that for women in ministry or for the L G B LGBTQ folk. Like we, we couldn't do that for them. But when it comes to your pocketbook, suddenly it's just, it's a fun story.

[00:31:51] It's an anecdote. Yeah. They didn't

[00:31:52] Ashley: me all of my money, they just spent, once in a while. The Good Samaritan guy at Christmas time, I put points in there. [00:32:00] I know. Screw them you guys, if you didn't. No, they're not good people. They're terrible. Don't support those people. They're anti L G B T Q and everybody.

[00:32:09] Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it. They're bad.

[00:32:12] Amber: No. Christmas pisses me off so much because it's them. And then Franklin Graham with his fucking like, Pack up shoe boxes for people and like all these Americans, throw all their like shitty dollar store stuff inside of boxes.

[00:32:27] And then Franklin Graham goes over to Africa and these little Zimbabwe children that are like, Do you want this shitty box of Dollar Tree stuff? You gotta know about Jesus first. They're like, I'm, it's so dumb. I'm hungry. Can I have some food? Not till you praise this prayer.

[00:32:44] And they're like, I'll say literally any fucking thing. Just gimme the dumb box with the food and stuff. And and then it fucks up the economy over there because for like weeks while they're there, then nobody is buying anything in the market. And it's during the time where people are, expecting that [00:33:00] economic, and then they're just not getting any, anything and you're just like taking money out of somebody else's. It just like, that whole thing pisses me off. So between them and then the Salvation Army people at Christmas, I'm a little grumpy and I'm like, no, I know we're gonna, we're gonna do micro loans and build cisterns.

[00:33:21] We're not doing any of this shit. And. I'm not very fun at Christmas time with congregants. They're like, we just wanna, do a 20 thing and feel like we're helping people. And we're like, that's not how justice work works.

[00:33:35] Ashley: Fuck. You

[00:33:38] Amber: get a, I get a little in my, like my Peter era just like pulling out a knife and Yeah.

[00:33:44] It's like

[00:33:45] Ashley: cut it off down.

[00:33:49] It's so true though. Charities I'm very like that too about when people like, I give to this charity. I'm like did you look it up? Like, how much money does the CEO make? And [00:34:00] people are like, why do you need to know that? I was like, I need to know. Where's my money go? And not because of me, because I want my money to actually go to help people.

[00:34:07] So I. Look shit up. I'm like, are they, do they give their CEOs shit tons of money? Do they support some weird ass organization that hates gay people? Because I need to know, I don't wanna give my money to any of these weird ass people, I'm the same way. I'm the same way. When I found out about those damn Samaritan people, I would like Good Samaritans.

[00:34:31] I would like, now I just give them terrible side eye whenever I walk by. Bombastic side eye every time. I'm like, bitches.

[00:34:43] Amber: I see our TikTok algorithm is similar.

[00:34:48] Ashley: Oh yeah. Bombastic side. I, every time I have no time for it.

[00:34:52] Amber: Or like the companies, yeah, companies. Iss Wendy's or whoever. They're like, would you like to round up to be? I'm like, not so that you can get a [00:35:00] fucking tax break. That's it. Pay your share taxes, bitches.

[00:35:03] Ashley: This is what I'm saying.

[00:35:05] You got pay your taxes. Okay. Controversial. You work at a church, so I gotta ask your controversial opinion. How do you feel about churches not paying taxes?

[00:35:18] Amber: I'm like, I have so many weird feelings about it because the thing is like my church, even though we have a large building, but we own the building and it's been here for a hundred years, so that's why we, the building, we have a fairly small congregation.

[00:35:36] And we are just like scraping by just to make sure all the programs run. And we really don't do a lot of we do some inward stuff, like obviously kids have classrooms so they have cookies and and stuff like that. But the vast majority of the money that we're using is either keeping lights on in the building or it's actually like going out and helping people in our community doing things.

[00:35:59] And [00:36:00] so like for us, taxing us would be like really difficult, yeah. But also fuck megachurches that like, they bring in so much money for all this stuff and it's so shady and it's I feel like there should be a cap. If you make so much money, if there's if you have book deals and your congregation is so big and it's bringing in so much money, there should be some sort of like in between because some churches have 30 people and them, and they're barely making it.

[00:36:29] And if they're doing good work and they're not like being political, like telling people who to vote for and stuff like fucking Greg Locke and his shitty congregation. Like if you're not engaging in that kind of stuff and you're doing honest work I don't know and it, you're not making a ton money.

[00:36:45] Like I see. I see. Yeah. But like also, if you're making a ton of money and so I'll tell you a little ramp, little story. I was at a church once that decided that they were gonna build [00:37:00] a building and it was supposed to be like like a gym. And it was supposed to help people in an impoverished areas of town.

[00:37:10] And so they could give them classes for their kids to learn trades and to do like art and stuff. And we were like, oh, this is great. They're gonna build it over on the other side of town. They're gonna help all these, these kids whose parents, instead of them having to pay for like aftercare, we'll just take care of that for free for them.

[00:37:29] And it'll be great. And And it was a very wealthy church. And this was prior to a lot of my deconstruction. It might've kicked off some of it, but when they announced it, I was like, oh, this is interesting. We could do this. And then a little bit later they announced where they bought the plot of land at, and it was like less than 15 minutes from where we were, which is like this part of town that was very wealthy.

[00:37:54] And I was like that's not good. It takes like 20 to 30 minutes to drive from the [00:38:00] more like redlining. There's there's yeah. There's. Every town has it. Every town's got absolutely like poor side. And so anyway, so there's no way that people are gonna spend that kind of gas to drop their kids off.

[00:38:10] Yeah. And then they started charging for classes and I was like, oh hell no. We're out. We're done. I can't do this shit. And so like things like that, Set me off. But I also know a lot of really great people who do honest work and they're just like barely making any money. And that's okay cuz it's the life that they committed to.

[00:38:28] And so just like we used to give teachers, a lot of times teachers would get to go to school for free and they'd have house and board meeting for free for places cuz it was considered a public service. And I don't know, I feel like case by case basis, but I'm still like real like shifty on that cuz I, I know people on both sides and I wanna make sure that good work still happens.

[00:38:50] Yeah. But also if we taxed all the churches, everybody would be. It would be in homes and there would be inequalities. I think that it would be [00:39:00] great if we didn't have to force people, if people actually took the mandated ideas that Jesus set forth of caring for the unhoused and Yeah.

[00:39:09] If we actually took that seriously, we would, no one have to force it. We would just go generously. And I'm, to some degree, I'm like, how do I get that? Cause you get more generous. I wouldn't be just giving you, like 2% of my income or whatever, it would be like, What needs you have and you get, not to get too communist, but ev everybody according to their need, everybody according to their ability, yeah. And to me I feel like that would be so great, but and unfortunately you got a lot of assholes. And so we, yeah. To force them to do things. It, so it

[00:39:45] Ashley: seems so I was talking to somebody about this the other day cuz we were talking about tithing and I was like, okay, the situation is now, I've done like a lot of reading about it because, so I used to go to church with my mom [00:40:00] sometimes, and they, one time we went and there was a whole service on tithing, like the whole entire service.

[00:40:07] I left like angry because I went to this church that we went to is in Not such a good place in town. Not in my town, but it's about 25 minutes away from where I live. And it's a poor area. And most of the people who go to this church are maybe on a lot of them are like on food stamps and government programs.

[00:40:30] Yeah. So to me I'm like, okay, so you're asking these people to tithe and they are just making it. Most of them have children. Like we, they had a whole school program for the beginning of school, donate money for stuff. And most people needed those backpacks and their school supplies. They didn't have a lot of money to buy that for their kids.

[00:40:49] So I'm like, you're asking these people to give 10% of their money when they don't have a lot of money to begin with. And you'd rather them do that than what feed equal their children, but [00:41:00] whatever. But. My, when I like did a lot of research on it, other than this stupid sermon I went to, I'm like, like I actually was like, I actually read about it and I'm like, okay.

[00:41:10] Cuz before I used to be like tax the charges that, which I still think that they should, but on, on the other hand, I see why they didn't like, because before what, like things like your church is trying to do. That was the whole point. It was like, no, the church is out here reaching out to the community and helping people.

[00:41:29] That's why we're not taxing them because what they're doing is using the money to, obviously they have to, the people who work in the church have to live, so we have to give them money. That's not a problem. They're working, but it's like they're using a lot of those money for helping people.

[00:41:43] Especially when it comes to like childcare. That's like you said, childcare is a big thing. A lot of childcare is expensive as fuck. A lot of churches and places would have free childcare for your kid or will watch 'em after school or whatever. So like in that respect, I'm like, yeah, and like I just talked about my mom [00:42:00] growing up.

[00:42:00] Like her church was in England, but still like them. Not cha not not charging them taxes allowed to give money to families who are poor, like my mom and her family. So in a way that was great for them, and her minister and everybody got to get paid. So I see it, but and so in this community aspect, I'm like, yeah, it's fine.

[00:42:19] Like I totally get it. Not taxing churches. What, like you said, where I have a huge problem it with, it is like these stupid ass people like Creflo Dollar and all these idiots like out here buying oh, buy a jet. Why do you need a jet? Number one, I thought you were supposed to be a champion for Christ and Christ wouldn't have a jet.

[00:42:37] First of all, he wouldn't know what it was cuz he lick a long time ago. He's what's that? I'm like, we'll explain later, but I'm walk in the water. It's fine. He's I just, he's I float up in clouds and shit. We're like, yeah, you don't need one. We know. Stop bragging Jesus.

[00:42:56] We know, but it's but like what? You need [00:43:00] all show off. I know, right? You need all this, and these expense. Even the pastor of the church, I went I went to, his, he had fancy suits every week. New suit, new this. I'm like, why do you need all this shit? And he used to like brag about yeah, one day they're gonna see me on tv.

[00:43:16] I'm like, so this is why you're doing this. Which is okay, you just wanna be on tv. Fine then go be on tv. But like you are collecting money from all these people. So I now didn't feel bad when I put $1 in the change basket. That's it. Because like you don't, if you sold much that money,

[00:43:31] Amber: the Instagram, that's like past shoes or something.

[00:43:34] Yes. Yeah.

[00:43:35] Ashley: That's fucking crazy. Really. Did you ever see the pastor who got robbed during church? No. Oh my god. I'm gonna send it to you on Instagram. Oh my god. It's hilarious. This man, he was wearing like a million dollars worth of jewelry. This is in Brooklyn. I think they robbed him during the, he was live streaming church and they just robbed him.

[00:43:53] And I was like, first of all, what in? Yeah, very rude. Preaching about like the gospel and [00:44:00] here you go. Robing that man. But it was funny because I'm like, first of all, you're wearing all this jewelry. Nobody cares. Like, why are you wearing all this jewelry at church? I never gone to church and be like, Ooh, look at the pastor's beautiful cuff links.

[00:44:12] I don't give a shit.

[00:44:14] Amber: It's

[00:44:14] Ashley: I just wanna feel good that day and I wanna sing and I wanna dance a little bit, like just hear something, but yeah, this guy got robbed during church and it's very funny and I will send it mean. Honestly

[00:44:25] Amber: though, like if you're, if you have the audacity to come in and take anything outta the church, cuz most people feel a little like uncomfortable about that still, but you obviously need it more than we do, like take it, I'm not worried about our stuff. Just feed your family. Yeah, that's, but yeah. That's wild that there was live streaming though. I'm like pretty funny. Not that the police are gonna do anything, they're gonna write a report and put it in somewhere and.

[00:44:54] Ashley: And people are just like somebody else. Everybody, yeah. Everybody's laughing. And then like, all this other stuff came out [00:45:00] later that this guy's like a huge scammer. So and then he was like, what's the biggest scam I can do? I'm gonna open a church. I was like, another thing I will be talking to.

[00:45:10] Christ. I'm like, Jesus, did you hear what this

[00:45:12] Amber: guy?

[00:45:13] So what's interesting too is that I think that we used to have more safety net programs that were backed by the government and when I wanna say when Reagan came in and slashed a lot of those

[00:45:23] Ashley: programs.

[00:45:24] Yeah. Always Reagan. Always fucking Reagan.

[00:45:27] Amber: That, I think that's where the church end up. I think the church has always operated, I. Sort of in a mutual aid situation, but I think that we had to rely on churches more after that point. And so that I have some interesting feelings about that.

[00:45:44] I'm like, I don't know maybe if we all put our money into the big pot, then we could all get the services without people having to feel like they have to say the God words and go. And then like people that show up at [00:46:00] the church can just come because they wanna come and not because they're like, if I say the right words, someone will put food in my hands.

[00:46:08] Yep. Yes. And then there's that

[00:46:11] Ashley: thing like too about and I don't know if I'm making sense when I see this, but like that there's like another flip side of that too, like with that like prosperity gospel stuff that people do. It's if I just Keep praying and I'll be rich. And I'm like, that's not how that works.

[00:46:26] Because money is a manmade thing, guys. God didn't make money. So

[00:46:30] Amber: God's not like a Coke machine. You just

[00:46:32] Ashley: like you do. He's not,

[00:46:38] yeah. The reason you don't have money is because of a multitude of reasons. It's not just because of you didn't pray hard enough for not having money. That's dangerous

[00:46:47] Amber: theology too. Yes, that shit's terrible. People that lost loved ones and stuff, and they're like you just didn't have enough faith.

[00:46:53] And I think, Ugh.

[00:46:54] Ashley: Oh my God. How many people have said so many? So I do a lot of [00:47:00] work with like grief and stuff. And people say wild shit like that. And even when like people die, just pray about it. I'm like, pray for what? Like I'm sad. Yeah. Yeah. Somebody's dead.

[00:47:11] What am I praying for? I understand. If you have a certain kind of thief and I know I say this to people like I hope they have a, an easy transition and things like that. I'm when I say I'm praying for people, I'm saying I'm praying like that a person is peaceful.

[00:47:24] I'm not saying that you, I'm praying you get over it. And I'm not saying that if you had prayed hard or somebody wouldn't have died, that doesn't make sense. Yeah. People need to shut the fuck up. Yeah.

[00:47:32] Amber: We just do not handle grief well in America. No. I don't know how it's handled in other countries per se, cuz I just know the American experience, but like like we, my husband and I, a trigger warning miscarriage, we had a miscarriage once and the wild shit people say and in that time you're like, you're grieving and people are like, God just needed them more than you. And I've what?

[00:47:56] Ashley: That's not what I wanna hear right

[00:47:58] Amber: now.

[00:47:58] Yeah. And just, [00:48:00] people just don't know what to say and I think they just try and fill the space with stuff, but it gets really insidious when they start bringing religion into that because they're just like religion comforts me and so I'm gonna say some weird religious things to you and add to your trauma.

[00:48:16] Yeah.

[00:48:18] Ashley: So hard. So just No, that's true.

[00:48:21] Amber: Just bring them a meal and just sit with them. You don't have to say anything really if you don't know what to say. Absolutely.

[00:48:27] Ashley: Yeah.

[00:48:27] For sure. Just, yeah. Yeah. Oh,

[00:48:30] Amber: sorry, go ahead. No, go ahead.

[00:48:32] Ashley: I'm gonna go through a little bit of the rest of what I was gonna talk about because we've had such a great conversation. I was gonna talk about other stuff, but we don't need to because this has been amazing. I was like, Ooh, she's a minister.

[00:48:43] I'm gonna bring up all the things that I have issues with, and you are so like progressive that you have all the same issues. So this is great.

[00:48:51] Amber: Yeah.

[00:48:53] Ashley: Fantastic. Yeah. I love you. Ok. A lot. I love you too, Ashley. [00:49:00] You're awesome. You're so cool. Yeah, so since this is fun is done with the divine, I will bring up a food thing okay, so you live in Florida, correct? I do. We already went over this. Yeah, I said this four times. Okay.

[00:49:11] Amber: I'd like to forget that. I live here sometimes, so it's fine.

[00:49:14] Ashley: I know that shit is great. Okay. We don't have time for that, but another time. Because your governor's doing a lot art.

[00:49:20] True.

[00:49:24] What we're gonna do. I know. We'll figure it out. I know. It'll be fine. We always do. So do you live near a Publix? Yes. Okay. Like a lot of Publix? Yeah. Okay. Are you familiar with Publix? No, but all I hear is that Publix is amazing and everybody loves Publix. Yeah. Everybody loves a pub sub. Okay.

[00:49:45] Just

[00:49:46] Amber: just, it's just the subs that they make back in the Publix deli. But people go crazy. But I had a friend once who created an Instagram for the pub sub. He was not sponsored. He just just made posts [00:50:00] about public sub.

[00:50:02] Ashley: I hope somebody gave him a coupon

[00:50:03] Amber: or something. I hope so. I don't, he's really, I was like, I don't know

[00:50:08] Ashley: what people just, they seem very passionate about it the way

[00:50:12] Amber: that it's like a cult

[00:50:13] Ashley: almost.

[00:50:14] Yeah. This is the way in New Jersey, a lot of people feel about Wawa. We have now quick check too. Some people swear by quick check. I don't, oh, Wawa is the original and this is how I feel about Wawa. Like I'm very passionate about. A Wawa sub Wawa soups they have, they're adding all the time to their menu.

[00:50:31] It's the best convenience store you'll ever go to. Fight me anytime, any day. I won't.

[00:50:36] I

[00:50:36] Amber: don't. I'm, am I anti catching hands? So I know.

[00:50:42] Ashley: Fight me about Wawa. You can catch these hands too. I should just, that should be like my motto in my life. Need it. Wawa gets easier or

[00:50:49] Amber: something. Yeah.

[00:50:52] Ashley: But I found this list of things you can buy at Publix if people really like okay.

[00:50:56] I thought I would tell everybody. So everybody, if you live near Publix, [00:51:00] this is what you should buy. This is the recommendations widely throughout Reddit. So the very popular and reputable site Reddit they're saying that chocolate chip cookies are good. The salsa apparently is fantastic.

[00:51:14] The ice cream. I've heard about the ice cream. People say Publix ice cream is so good. The brand like Publix brand. Yeah.

[00:51:19] Amber: It's comparable to, I feel like other national brands. Yes. But it's at that generic price, so yeah. It's

[00:51:25] Ashley: pretty good. Yeah. Sweet tea and yeah, I've never had sweet tea but everyone's oh, it's just sugar with a little bit tea.

[00:51:34] And I'm like, oh,

[00:51:36] Amber: yeah. Do you drink hot tea? Yeah, I do. That was weird for me. So I, we li, I grew up mostly in Florida and then I moved to Michigan for a couple years and then moved back. And I like on our drive up to Michigan, I just kept every gas station. Kept, like seeing it through a sweet tea.

[00:51:53] My sweet tea. And then at some point we got like halfway up and I, they started serving hot tea in the [00:52:00] gas station. So I was like, okay, so now we're north. Now. I know we're cold. We need hot tea.

[00:52:07] Ashley: So people really like this syrup and their croissants syrup. Yes. Ooh, they got some lemonade.

[00:52:14] That's getting some hype over here.

[00:52:16] Amber: Pretty good. Pretty

[00:52:17] Ashley: good. Yeah. Pizza dough. Okay. They're glazed donuts.

[00:52:23] Amber: I'm a crispy crane gal, so I haven't really eaten the donuts. Yeah.

[00:52:29] Ashley: Gonna fight. We don't really have crispy creams up here. We got Dunking Donuts. That's our thing. It's fine. I had a crispy cream once.

[00:52:36] It was fine. I was like, it'll change your life. And I'm like, not really. It was fine, but yeah. Did you eat it

[00:52:41] Amber: hot though? No, it comes hot. Yeah. When they first make them in the morning, they're like hot and they just melt in your mouth. And that's life changing. But if you just have the crispy cream, they're okay.

[00:52:53] But I feel like it's it's the hot ones. It's always the hot ones that change your life. It's true.

[00:52:59] Ashley: Any hot [00:53:00] pastry? I'm happy. Yeah. Hot pastry, hot people. It's all good. They've all messed me up in some way. We got lime. Oh no. Oh no. My life's a mess. We got key lime pie. Yeah.

[00:53:11] We got, I've never had key lime high either. I have to have this one day. And the, oh, at the bottom. Here you go. For your friend, of course, the most iconic, the royal, the most high public sub. And it says here, bow down, immortals, and trembled the face of perfection. Damn. Okay. No,

[00:53:33] Amber: I haven't had in a while, I I stopped eating meat mostly.

[00:53:37] Oh, wow. Like I got a year ago. I like tried to, when I was younger and my mom would like put meat in everything that even, it's just like vegetables. She'd be like, oh, there's some bacon fat in that. And I'm like, it's literally the only thing that I can eat, but thanks mom. And so I just gave up. But then when we moved here, I, so many of my friends that go to this church are vegan or [00:54:00] vegetarian, so they always bring dishes when that have, no meat.

[00:54:03] That's, and a lot of our restaurants around here have a lot of vegan and veg vegetarian options. I still do cheat. Cheat. It's my own thing, so I, it's not really cheating. I get to make the rules about my own body. Absolutely. But, I still I like shrimp. That's okay. Shrimp tacos. I just, shrimp is good.

[00:54:21] Ashley: Yeah, no, I know a lot of people who are, what is, it's like pescatarian. Yeah. Or like you said too yeah. And you can make up your own rules. I know a lot of people who only eat chicken, like that's the only meat them, they'll be like, oh, I'm a vegetarian, but I only eat chicken. I'm like, first of all, you're not, but second of all, you can just say you only eat chicken.

[00:54:38] It's not that big of a deal. You don't have to fight with other vegetarians about it.

[00:54:42] Amber: And vegetarian, like most of the people, it's like that stereotype, right? You're vegetarian. You have to talk about it. Oh, I'm vegan, and you're like, we get it all right.

[00:54:52] Ashley: Every vegan person I know has, like, when you meet them, they're like, hi, I'm vegan. And it's oh my God, I don't give a shit. I don't wanna, [00:55:00] and everywhere you go with them, they're like, oh, do they have any vegan options? I don't know. I don't know.

[00:55:07] Amber: There's so many cults out there. There's a cult of vegan things. There's a cult of what's the other thing we said that sounded like a cult?

[00:55:16] I don't remember. I don't know. Publix cults. Publix

[00:55:19] Ashley: cults. Yes.

[00:55:20] Amber: Peloton Cults. Oh, those people are

[00:55:22] Ashley: like, I feel like there's, that's fine if you wanna exercise, but like you're okay, fine. Great. You exercise on your fancy expensive bike. I walk outside, it's free. Congratulations. We're both doing something we enjoy.

[00:55:35] Like why are we fighting about it? Stupid, so dumb. So last or not least, we're having like a really mini story time today. This all worked out because I was like, oh, our story time's not really long, but it's fine. So our mini story time is just about how we've talked about this, the whole episode, the whole point of [00:56:00] Jesus and stuff like that is that Jesus was really nice, like like the whole thing. He was very nice and he just wanted everyone to get along. And that gets very lost. And I know there's a lot of people who may listen to my podcast and you guys are not Christians and I want it to be for everybody, and I want to hear different perspectives of people.

[00:56:19] Yeah. But just in case anybody's I've never heard of this. Jesus. I'm like, let me tell you the story. The story is that Jesus was like, Let's be nice. And the whole Bible is full of stories, so I'm like, we can't pick one because it's a big story about a lot of shit. There's a lot of shit that goes on.

[00:56:36] Yeah. But when Jesus comes into the picture and the news testament, he a lot of his stories or parables, am I using that word or right? Parables. Okay. Yeah. Like I've been a while since I went to Sunday school. I can't remember all the words. But he's, it's

[00:56:52] Amber: they're not magic. It's fine.

[00:56:55] Ashley: All of the stories about him were about him wanting [00:57:00] to respect people, wanting others to respect others wanting to be kind, and just trying to show people that , even though you might not understand or know somebody, you should just be nice to them.

[00:57:12] Yeah. Because. We're all people. Yep. So I found this very cute little website and it has bible kids stories. I was like, oh. And it was like five times Jesus taught us about kindness. And I'm like, I just wanna remind everybody this was his actual point. Not to hate anybody, he just was trying to be nice.

[00:57:28] So if you've ever heard of a little disease called leprosy back in the day it was really bad and a lot of people had it and it was highly communicable, so people made them live together. So nobody wanted to go over there, but Jesus did one time, he's no, we gotta go over there.

[00:57:44] And this guy came up to him and he's I have leprosy. Please help me. Jesus. And Jesus is like, no problem. And all Jesus' friends were like chill. Jesus. You might get leprosy. And Jesus is like, Hey, we gotta help people who are going through shit. Okay. So [00:58:00]

[00:58:00] Amber: verbatim. That's what he said.

[00:58:03] Ashley: He said, we've gotta help people and don't worry about it. We have to do nice things for them. So that's one thing that he did. And that's in Matthew eight, chapter one through four. It's way more eloquently said there. That was basically the point of the

[00:58:16] Amber: story. That was a great recap. I love it.

[00:58:21] Ashley: Thank you. And another time. Jesus. He went to dinner with this guy who was Jesus really didn't like money collectors. If you didn't know. One time he flipped a table. He got so mad about it.

[00:58:34] Amber: So he was exchanging money inside the church and Yes. Charging people to be able to do spiritual practice.

[00:58:41] Ashley: Yes. And he wasn't about that. Yeah. And like I agree. Like it's not about that. He was like, no, you should be here because that's what you want and it makes you happy. Yep. So there was this guy everybody in the bible had these wild, awesome names, Zacharias I love it. And he was a wealthy chief tax collector.

[00:58:59] And he really wanted see my [00:59:00] story. Yes, he really wanted to see Jesus, but he was mad short. So he had

[00:59:07] couldn't see damn. Yeah, he was a short king. And he's no, I wanna see Jesus. He's supposed, Jesus was a cool guy. He was like the rockstar. The day people like to go see him talk, cuz he always has some cool shit to say. So he got up in the tree and then he's Jesus, my boy. And then Jesus saw him and he's Zacharias, get down here.

[00:59:26] And he's tonight I'm gonna come have dinner with you. And all the people saw him and the people saw that he was talking to Zacharias and all the people are like, Jesus is going to have dinner with that guy. He sucks. He's a sinner and Jesus. And, but then Zacharias stood up and he said, Jesus, look, I'm gonna give you half the half of my possessions to the poor, and if I've cheated anybody at anything, I'm gonna pay them back.

[00:59:53] And Jesus is see today Zacharias has changed his ways because he, and I think the point of that [01:00:00] story is that Zacharias maybe didn't think he was worthy because he was doing something that was like, deemed not good what he was doing. He was taking people's taxes, probably keeping some of it, Oh yeah.

[01:00:10] Yes, definitely. But yeah. But Jesus realized that even though Zacharias was doing something wrong, It was okay that like everybody can be redeemed. And then Zacharias was like, bet okay, cool. Like I will, I think I'm gonna change my ways cuz I realized that this person is making me realize that like I'm worth it more than I thought.

[01:00:27] And Jesus

[01:00:28] Amber: invites him into community before he's even worthy of it and then that changes him. He didn't have to make some kind of rules or judgment on him. Yes. That him feeling like a part of something made him change and become a kinder person himself. Which I think is exactly,

[01:00:45] Ashley: yeah and like everything we've been talking about, look how if we welcome more people into our communities and like I'm not just talking about Christians, I'm talking about all different types of communities and cuz there's all different types of people who [01:01:00] discriminate.

[01:01:00] So if we welcome people. That helps them too, become better persons for themselves, and beyond us judging them, maybe they will feel better about themselves also because we've now helped them. That's, hello, let's do this. So then another time, Jesus Jesus did this all the time. He was always showing compassion to sick people when all of his friends, Jesus' friends are crazy. They were always like, Jesus, don't touch that lady. She's dirty. Jesus. Don't touch that person. They're a different. The tribal group and Jesus is can you guys chill out?

[01:01:35] I'm literally Jesus. And it's literally fine. They're,

[01:01:40] Amber: they're always like, did you forget who I am? They're like, I'm Dory Syndrome.

[01:01:46] Ashley: I feel like he's constantly turning around to, especially Peter. Cause I feel like Peter was always trying to stop him from doing something. I was like, Peter, shut up.

[01:01:57] Jesus Christ. Peter[01:02:00]

[01:02:02] Peter's always my Lord don't do this. And Jesus is can you literally chill out? I literally, he's always mad, even though Peter's the one who goes later and just keeps talking about Jesus. So I guess he's fine, but like in the moment, Peter was doing a lot and Peter was the one. Isn't Peter the one who denied him three?

[01:02:23] Peter, I have some words. You're doing a lot. But also yeah. Peter even almost got in a fight with Mary Magdalene one time. We talked about that on a different episode. But don't worry about it. Go back and re-listen to it. Exactly. You just be rude. Exactly. But even Jesus. Knew. Okay.

[01:02:43] So even, and I didn't know this, but Jesus knew of course he knew Jesus knew a lot. He already knew Jesus was gonna obviously betray him. And he still kissed him. And Peter again, Peter was like, why are you kissing him? And Jesus is like, it don't matter. He's I [01:03:00] is fine.

[01:03:01] He's my bro. And I already know it's about to happen. So it's gonna be fine. And he is Peter. And I feel like in my head, this is what happened too. He's Peter, don't forget. I know what you're about to do too. So shut the hell up. You have no room to talk. Pop me pedal. Exactly. He said, be quiet.

[01:03:20] You're too loud. Stop. Stop. Oh, and the last thing is that Jesus saw, okay, the whole Samaritan thing cuz he kept, nobody likes Samaritans back then, I guess whatever. So back, so when Jesus saw a Samaritan lady and she was thirsty, he gave her the drink and it was probably Peter, but maybe it was somebody else who was like, damn, why you giving that Samaritan lady a drink?

[01:03:43] Cuz we're Jewish and we don't associate with them. And Jesus was like, because this drink is a gift from God, so I'm gonna give it to her because she deserves it. Cuz she's God's child basically. That's what he said. And everyone was like, damn, Jesus was so pro I think people say it, but people really don't realize [01:04:00] this was what he was about.

[01:04:01] He just wanted to help everybody. All these other things that, all these stupid super, not, sorry, I shouldn't say that, but people who are super conservative are saying all these things that are not true. He was super accepting. He super just wanted to help everybody. It wasn't about who you were, it wasn't even about that you believed in him, that he didn't care.

[01:04:20] He just wanted people to be comfortable. Yeah. I feel like the gospel

[01:04:24] Amber: is just so inclusive. It's all about making the world right, making people right in their relationships and Yes. Streamlined, white American evangelicalism has so ventured off that path. It's all about people get angry about culture, war, bullshit and it's about how you dress and how you talk and this and that and and hell fire.

[01:04:46] Yeah. It's just that's not the point. You're missing it completely. Yeah. Yeah, should be about love and inclusion and kindness. So yes,

[01:04:56] Ashley: so that's, and [01:05:00] that's where we're gonna end it, because that's what we need to do. Damn it, everybody be nice. And just remember that it's about kindness and thank you, Amber, for being part of a community, which is trying to actually spread that message.

[01:05:13] You're doing a great job. Thanks. And you're fun and you're hilarious, and I really enjoy you as a person.

[01:05:19] Amber: I, you reached out to me and ask me about being on your podcast, and I was like let me just check her out for, and I love your podcast. You're so funny. The people that come on have so much wisdom and I just laugh.

[01:05:32] I'm like, those are my friends. They don't know it, but they're my friends.

[01:05:37] Ashley: I like, I'm glad you, I'm so glad you agreed, because it's like there, I do have a lot of like witchy people, but and I think I've said this on a previous podcast, I am like, From my induction into this world, I think I've been up, I love spirituality of any sort.

[01:05:55] I love reading, like religious texts of any sort. I love learning so [01:06:00] I always wanna hear from every single person I can like their perspective and like how it makes sense to them because it's just interesting

[01:06:08] interesting that you came on here. Yeah. Thank you so much. Absolutely. Anytime. Yeah. Amber, before we leave, I just always ask people and I stole this, I will always say this, I stole this from a different podcast that I love Scam Goddess. So she always says, where do you wanna be found on the internet if people like to follow you or anything like that.

[01:06:26] Amber: So I'm on Instagram, I. Gosh, I didn't, I you can text, I'm gonna

[01:06:33] Ashley: link all the links will be in the show notes. I'm just asking you. Yeah.

[01:06:35] Amber: Yeah. Instagram, I'm pretty active there. I am on Facebook. And I keep that pretty open because I've got all kinds of people that follow me there, but it's a little more boring over there.

[01:06:46] I feel like Instagram, I'm a little spicier. I do have a Twitter, but I don't engage with it much since Elon took over to that place. Yeah. I'm on TikTok too but I'm not consistent, but I do have quite a few videos up. So I'm [01:07:00] there too. So I'm all over. Or you could, if you're ever in Jacksonville, Florida and wanna meet me in person, we're at Riverside Church at Park King.

[01:07:09] So you could find me there too.