Bougie Spirits and Ancestral Posession with Adwoa and Solomon of Adeche Atelier

Adeche

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[00:00:00] MacBook Air Microphone: Hi, everybody. So this episode, we have view wonderful. and Solomon. And there's a couple of times, I think, in the podcast where I called him Samuel. So I just wanted to say no, his name is Samuel it's Solomon. I apologize to him. The other thing I wanted to tell you guys is stay tuned to the very end. You're going to know this. We don't have the, outgoing music and that's because we have a little treat at the end. So stay tuned all the way till the end of the episode, to listen to the little extra that I tacked on. Okay, thanks and enjoy the show.

[00:00:35] Ashley: Okay. Hi, everybody. Welcome to Dine with the Divine. I'm your host Ashley and together we'll be exploring the magical, the mystical, and everything in between. On today's podcast, we're going to talk about festivals and we're going to talk about maybe a helpful possession. We'll see what you guys think. So today we have a [00:01:00] twofer.

[00:01:00] I love a twofer. So you we have the wonderful, amazing, very talented Adjoa Boce and Solomon Adbi the creative couple , behind Adeche, I'll, I can never say this word Atelier. I literally just studied how to say it and then I said it wrong. Cool. They have become like, they're all over.

[00:01:21] You probably see them. They're all over the Instagrams. They tell stories, they have beautiful paintings, they're fantastic content creators, and they focus a lot on African mythology and culture. They're both full time architects. Architecture school is hard. So congratulations. This is. It's so ridiculous.

[00:01:40] I have a side story very quick. Everyone knows I love a rant. I'm sorry. I was, when I went to college, I, this girl who dormed with us, she was like in architecture school, and she just never left the building. She would just be there for like a week. It was weird. And we'd be like, is she alive? What's going on?

[00:01:58] Anyway so let me finish your [00:02:00] introduction because I'm, I have a bird brain. So they have full time careers in architecture and they are a Manchester based duo and they've dedicated their free time over the past three years to crafting art and it's literally visually stunning and beautiful and very vibrant.

[00:02:16] Anything that is colorful, I'm like,

[00:02:22] yes! Look at that! Their paintings are not just works of art, but they're vibrant portrayals of the world of African mythological deities, folktales, and culture. And I know you guys just had a art exhibit, right? Yes. It was great. Yay! That's so cool! My first question for you guys is, how did you get into doing all of this?

[00:02:46] Adwoa: How far back? How far back?

[00:02:48] We met, obviously, we met at the same architecture university The first time we actually met was at an art exhibition.

[00:02:57] Ashley: So we were both like exhibiting our work there [00:03:00] and

[00:03:00] Adwoa: we didn't know of each other back then but we both had our separate works up.

[00:03:04] Oh nice! Yeah and then we realised, oh we go to the same uni and we study the same subjects so that was great. So that's when we first met and then, yeah, because we're both artists and we're both kind of creative people, like Solomon was usually more of a,

[00:03:17] Ashley: Photorealistic,

[00:03:18] Adwoa: using graphite, black and white stuff.

[00:03:21] I was more of an illustrator, lots of color and stuff like that. And Solomon one day was like, Oh, I really want to paint and use color. So I was like, okay,

[00:03:29] Ashley: I bought some canvases. I don't think he's done it. We had that

[00:03:37] Adwoa: cool sip and paint kind of session and then that's when we created our first

[00:03:42] Ashley: joint

[00:03:43] Adwoa: piece together.

[00:03:44] And it looked so good. It was such an interesting process working together. And we were like, oh, this looks good. Let's do this again.

[00:03:55] And then eventually we started exploring our culture, our heritage through them. [00:04:00] It started as simple as, started to think of the name to give a piece. And then we started like joining them up with some like the Orishas or some of the deities that we knew. Well, we didn't know at the time, but we've heard them and we're like, Oh, that would be really interesting That was related to that and then we started researching more into it and then we were like, wait, why don't we know more about this?

[00:04:22] Yeah. and started, creating and researching, creating more. And then it became what we did.

[00:04:34] And then on that journey, we found out that lots of people didn't know about a lot of these as well. Yeah. So we were like, let's just tell the world. Cause these are great stories and great deities and great. We're like such a powerful continent and nobody knows anything. So we're like, yeah, let's just make this our mission to

[00:04:51] Ashley: teach everybody.

[00:04:52] Yeah.

[00:04:52] Adwoa: Because, we love mythology as a whole, but you only really get to learn about Greek or Norse or Western [00:05:00] mythology. And yeah, so we thought that since. We're finding these things out and it's super interesting and, it's so diverse, so rich, so complex. But why does no one else know about this?

[00:05:11] We started making it our mission and, one video at a time, it started taking off. Yeah.

[00:05:17] Ashley: God, I also have to mention that you guys are just adorable. Like, together, you're just the cutest people. Look at you guys. Aw, look at them.

[00:05:27] Cute. That is so fantastic. I love that. Ajwa, you're Ghanaian, right? Yes, I'm Ghanaian. Okay, and Solomon, you're Nigerian? Yes, I am. That's great. I'm Ghanaian. Well, my dad's from Ghana, and then my fiancé's from Nigeria. Like, we're all friends now. This is great.

[00:05:47] And my mom actually, my mom's from England, but like, by the way, my grandfather's from Jamaica, but my mom's from England, actually. So this is all great. I feel very excited. Yes, I've been watching you guys for a while and actually. I, saw your stuff, [00:06:00] like, months and months ago, and then I just, didn't follow you, and then I couldn't find it.

[00:06:04] And then one of, somebody who listens to this podcast is , Have you ever seen these people? I was like, Yes, I have. Thank you. I

[00:06:10] Adwoa: was like, Oh, I've been looking through

[00:06:12] Ashley: their content, and I couldn't remember their name.

[00:06:20] I was like, Oh, you might be interested in looking at these people's content. I was like, Yeah, I've been looking at it. Yeah yeah, this is okay. I'm so excited to have you guys here. So the first thing we're going to do today, we're going to do our dish of the week and because we're all West Africans here, we're going to have the battle of the swallows, which is the best swallow.

[00:06:41] We don't know yet. We're going to find out. Me and my fiance argue about this. Okay, me, I grew up eating fufu. Only fufu. Yeah. Yeah. So fufu with every soup, peanut butter soup, fufu with okra soup, fufu with everything. So I met this [00:07:00] man and he was like, do you want pounded yam? And I was like, what is that?

[00:07:03] I

[00:07:07] was like, okay, let me explain. Also, anybody who's listening to this podcast is like, what the hell are you talking about? Most, and I think it's like most West African countries have, we have, we love a starch and we love a soup. This is what we do all the time. You'll have different kinds of starches, what we like, we'll call it swallow, and then you have whatever kind of soup that you're used to.

[00:07:26] Nigerians, you guys love it. Goosey soup. I had no idea what that was until I met this dude. But he introduced me and now I'm obsessed. Love it. So it just depends where you're from. But everybody has different kinds of swallows that they like or their favorite. And they're made of different things.

[00:07:42] So again, I said I've always been fufu all the time, forever. I will die with fufu and peanut butter soup in my coffin with me.

[00:07:52] Adwoa: I don't know.

[00:07:55] Ashley: I I love it. Okay. Let's talk about different kinds of [00:08:00] swallow.

[00:08:01] I'm going to start with pounded yam. Because this was my discovery when I met my fiance. Yeah. I do like pounded yam. The process is too much. I don't want to do all of that. Yeah It's I mean why

[00:08:16] Adwoa: pay for the gym when you can just make puns, yeah So for

[00:08:25] Ashley: anybody who's what okay i'm gonna put up a post on like the blog so you guys can see how they do it But think of americans think of if you've gone to one of these colonial So in America, we have a lot of these places that will, pretend to be colonial, and they'll, show how they did it in the old times.

[00:08:40] So think of, like, how they churned butter. Remember how it's, like, really hard? Yeah. Yeah, it's like that, but, like, you're literally pounding... Okay, so it's so nice to talk to you guys, but then I have to remember that everybody doesn't know what this is. Okay. So we have something called yams, not yams like sweet potatoes.

[00:08:57] This is yams. They're like, they look literally [00:09:00] like logs. Yeah. They're like long, brown and they're, and for, oh, Hispanic people, you guys will know as yucca. They call it yucca. So you can boil it, you can bake it, you can do whatever you want with it. It's great. It's very versatile. So to pound yam, you'll like boil it and then you put it in this butter churn situation and you literally have to pound it with a giant stick.

[00:09:21] stick. It looks hard. My fiance will tell you that in his town, he was like the yampounder. This is how he made some extra money in the evenings. He would just go around.

[00:09:35] He always tells me, , that's how I made like a couple extra coins here and there. I was just like, everyone knew I was good at it. So I just went around and did it in the evening. I was like. I'm saying business Nigerians,

[00:09:48] so smart. It's good. It's soft. It's not like as soft as fufu. Usually I don't think it's a little harder. Yeah, it's a little harder, but I like it. It's fine. It's [00:10:00] whatever. Fufu is always like my love, but it's like my second favorite. Yeah. Yeah. Which, what swallows do you guys have a favorite swallow?

[00:10:08] Yeah. Okay. I've been They've been pounded, yeah. So But I So I'm

[00:10:13] Adwoa: literally like you, actually. Like, I

[00:10:14] Ashley: fufu all the time. I love fufu, Yeah.

[00:10:17] Adwoa: Especially because I used to live in Ghana, so Oh my god. It was just amazing. It's amazing, like So I'm the kind of, like I like it when I'm in Ghana, because it's It's different.

[00:10:29] It tastes fresh, and it's You

[00:10:30] Ashley: actually see them pounding it like this, and it's like, Yeah, there's something

[00:10:34] Adwoa: about, like, the propaganda and food that's like, Oh my god.

[00:10:38] Ashley: Yeah. I love the soup as well. Peanut soup is chef's kiss. Oh it's my favorite. It's, I could make it every day and eat it. My fiance does not like it, but he lies to me and says he does, because I think he's not trying to hurt my feelings.

[00:10:53] I'm like, I'll make something separate for you, or you can make your own, whatever. But I'm gonna eat it. You're not gonna stop me. Let me live my [00:11:00] life. So first of all, everything tastes better in the motherland. I'm convinced. Yeah. I actually went to Ghana for the first time. I was like, This is like a few years ago, and I was like, damn, all the food tastes better here.

[00:11:15] Adwoa: It makes sense. You have access to all the ingredients right there. And so it's fresh.

[00:11:21] Ashley: Yeah, exactly. I just saw that chicken and I'm eating it and it tastes great. It's not a problem.

[00:11:29] Adwoa: There was nothing else added to it. It was right

[00:11:31] Ashley: there.

[00:11:31] Adwoa: It was there.

[00:11:36] Ashley: I know, in America, it's hormones and stuff.

[00:11:39] I try to be like more natural, but it's so expensive and the economy is garbage. Yeah. It's okay. So then, I think this may be, Ajo, I think this may be a purely Ghanaian thing. Like Kanké? I think Kanké is just a Ghanaian thing. Yeah. Yeah, it's got anything. Yeah. Yeah. My sister hates Kanké. She's not.

[00:11:56] Oh. We were at my aunt's [00:12:00] house when we were in Ghana and like we ate that for lunch one day and she's like, oh no. Oh no. I like didn't, I don't eat it that often. So I forgot that she didn't like it. So then I felt bad. I was like, are you good? She's like, it's okay. I just won't eat now. I don't want to ask her for anything else.

[00:12:14] I'm like, all right. God. She didn't like it, but I like it. Can you describe it to me? What is it like? So it's like swallow? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's like, but it's like a li it tastes like a little sour. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It's fermented dough. Yeah. Yeah. It's not harder as well. Yes. And it's usually wrapped in like, like is it le this leaf like brown leafy thing. I don't know what it is. Me either. Yeah. . Yeah. It's in a quiet taste. I like it though. You de seen. Think you might have seen it. Yeah. You must. Yeah. A lot of times you eat it with like corn, beef. Yeah, I like it with corn beef. Yeah, it's good. We like corn beef too.

[00:12:55] Alright.[00:13:00]

[00:13:01] Yeah. It comes, it, yeah, I think it's like purely a Ghanaian thing and we, yeah, we like We like it. We like corned beef. So it's fine. Right. Okay. Yeah. And then you have, okay. I don't like Amboa. I don't like it.

[00:13:16] Adwoa: Yeah, you have maturing is knowing that I liked it when I was younger.

[00:13:22] younger, I thought why do they have this bitter Well, no, it like, it's this, it's a darker colors,

[00:13:28] Ashley: like, almost like, oh, it's the grayish one. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. .

[00:13:31] Adwoa: So I thought that it, something went wrong when they made it

[00:13:37] Yeah, that's what I assumed. But then when I when you grow older and you have it again, you're like, you know what, this, there's actually like a mature, refined face because it brings in these dimension to the suit that you have it with. Because you have to experience the soup more because of the bitterness of the that,

[00:13:55] Ashley: that's what I tell myself.

[00:13:56] To be fair, I like it. That's fine. I just feel like I'm not that picky

[00:13:59] Adwoa: when [00:14:00] it comes to eating.

[00:14:01] Ashley: I just, yeah. I just like food. I had it, yeah, I had it once. I wasn't a fan. I tried because it was there. So I was like, I'm gonna try to finish it. I think I did, but afterwards I was like, I don't want that again.

[00:14:17] So then we have our favorite here, FooFoo. Me and Ojuwa team FooFoo. It's can be boiled cassava and also some yams in it and each country apparently has a different way of making fufu. In Ghana, yeah, I didn't realize this, in Ghana, the Ivory Coast and Liberia, they Separate and mix like equal portions of pounded yam sorry, boiled cassava and cocoa yam and mix it with flour.

[00:14:45] Well, that I know like you can do it on, you can get the fufu flour and like make it on the stove. But yeah, that's, well, in other countries, I don't know what they do. I just have what Ivory Coast Ghana and Liberia do. I've had it with

[00:14:55] Adwoa: plantain as well. And like, it's like mixed with plantain as well, so there's the plantain [00:15:00] fufu as well.

[00:15:01] I've had

[00:15:01] Ashley: it. I have had that. Yeah. It's a little like stickier when you have it like that. Yeah. I've had that and I like that. And then we have what I think is pretty universal. Okay, Eba. Here's the thing about Eba. I didn't realize that you could eat it with soup. Because the only way I grew up eating it was as like, like a cereal.

[00:15:22] Oh, that yeah, Gary's cereal. Yeah, and I asked, yeah, I remember talking to my dad about this. I was like, dad, how come we never eat it like that? He's like, cause I didn't like it. I was like, oh, so he just like never,

[00:15:37] Adwoa: just like never made it. So I just like, I had no idea.

[00:15:43] Ashley: I just don't like that. I was like, oh okay. Thanks for keeping me culturally naive, dad.

[00:15:52] I bet it's good. It's a little grainy, but I like it and you can eat it the day after so it's it can keep for a day. Instead of [00:16:00] pounded yam and fufu don't really keep at all. You have to like eat it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then the last one and I never heard of this one.

[00:16:08] This is a Hausa thing, I didn't know this Tuwo, it's like a cornmeal yeah, I don't know either, but just wanted to include Hausa people in there, I didn't want to leave you guys out I hope you enjoyed that so that's our everybody, this is Swallow sorry if you're like, I'm confused, I'm gonna put pictures all over the blog so you can understand what we were talking about.

[00:16:27] Everyone has a different preference, but everything is good with any kind of soup. Don't be afraid. Okay, I've seen people do this. If you don't know, please eat it with your hands. It tastes better. If you eat it with a, if you eat it with a spoon, you're going to feel stupid. It's not going to work.

[00:16:46] You don't have to eat all this food with your hands it'll taste better, it'll be more functional for you, and you're just gonna enjoy it more, so it's fine. Let's go. Alright now I'm gonna do my plug and then we'll move on. If you guys enjoyed this podcast, we're [00:17:00] dying with the divine, that's what you're listening to if you didn't know.

[00:17:02] You can subscribe on Apple or Google or Spotify or whatever. And then you can give us a rating if you like it, you can give me a tip if you want, and you can email me with any questions, comments, concerns at dimewithadivinepod at gmail. com. Okay, that was nice and quick and dirty. All right, so now we're going to talk about a festival.

[00:17:22] So here's what happened, and this is why I even know about this. So again, like you guys know, I've talked about him many times, my fiancé is from Nigeria. So one day we were talking, and my friend, one of my best friends, we were at like talking about Halloween, and she's like, Ashley, can you ask Yemi if there's like a Nigerian Halloween, because I'm very interested to know.

[00:17:39] I was like, absolutely. Well, I'm going to ask him. So I was like, is there a Nigerian Halloween? He's like, Oh, but it's way scarier. I was like, what?

[00:17:52] So I put and he made me he said you have to be when I tell you about this you have to tell them I'm from a kitty state. He's from a [00:18:00] kitty state everybody. It's important that you know this for some reason according to him, so There is a festival, it's called the Agungun Festival. And it happens in Yorubaland and in different states it's different.

[00:18:14] This is like, I put my notes, Akiti State Reporting. There, so it usually happens during the YAM festivals. The YAM festivals are during, like, July and August. So if now there's been some videos on TikTok and people have made some memes about it There's like a guy and it looks like he's dressed up like in all these leaves It's something I don't know if it's a guy but there's like a figure dressed up in leaves and like hitting people This is literally the Guggenheim festival yeah, they're very different so the belief during this time is that and much like your Samhain celebration, it's actually really closely related.

[00:18:55] The whole reason people dress up for Halloween is because [00:19:00] Well, it's actually different, but I'll explain. The reason people dress up for a Samhain, Celtic Halloween or whatnot is because the theory is that the spirits of the dead people are going to come down, right? And you dress up so that they don't, like, try to bring you back with them.

[00:19:13] Yeah. So you're like, Oh, I'm pretending I'm someone else. You don't know me. And like, you're running around and it's fun. Candy was introduced later. I don't know how the candy came to be, but whatever. Oh. Yeah. But during the Agunga Festival, there are these figures dressed up, and they're believed to be the ancestors of the people coming down to do all sorts of stuff, so you'll see.

[00:19:34] It's a big festival, it's about a week long, and a lot of people come out for this festival. And on the last day, it's like the biggest day, because that's when they believe all these ancestral spirits are going back up into... Heaven to the sky or whatnot. So it starts on a market day. And there is a area usually it is a If you don't know it is a very Nigeria has a lot [00:20:00] of greenery So there's usually a forest area where it's roped off and like nobody's going there So this is where the spirits come out of now Who are these spirits and like what's going on here?

[00:20:13] So there is Usually people who their family have been participating in this festival for years and years and years and years They are the embodiments of these spirits. So they make these very in elaborate costumes and They represent different kinds of spirits They go into the woods and they change into these costumes and they also in the woods do like rituals and Prayers and different things so that they can basically become like filled with these spirits so they put on the costume and they have a procession and they go to usually the center of a Whichever town they're in at this point.

[00:20:53] The different characters, they have different types of masks and they represent different people. I didn't [00:21:00] write down all the different representations because I knew I wouldn't be able to pronounce them later. My fiance's at work. He can't help me. He They come down and different ones are different. So he was explaining to me that like some are for like good luck, and they're very peaceful. And some of them are like mean, and they'll like hit you if you look at them. So you have to and he's like, as a kid, this is like very fun, right? Like you taught the mean ones and they try to chase you and you.

[00:21:26] Yes. I was like, this doesn't sound fun. He's like, no, it's fun. You get beat the crap out of by these people. I was like,

[00:21:39] Adwoa: It's not fun at all. It's not fun for me. Yeah.

[00:21:45] Ashley: I know, I was like, this wouldn't be me. I'd be, I can't run fast. So I can't play in the, with these spirits. I'm not a runner. Some of the spirits, though, what they do is go to different people's houses, for instance, if somebody's petitioning for [00:22:00] something say there's a woman who is trying to get pregnant, or there's a couple trying to get pregnant, or somebody needs a job, or whatever they, are hoping for, they can go to these spirits, usually give them, usually it's money now but give these spirits money, and they have, Special, items in their hands, and they basically will bestow it on these people to help them achieve what they want to achieve, pregnancy, money, a job if they're sick or somebody in there is sick in their family and they need help. And so the different these different characters will go to these different houses and help people. Also when they're in the houses, or actually when they're in the street, they're said to have these visions and prophecies.

[00:22:46] And, I actually will record, fiancé making... How they sound because it was good. He described how their voices sound very different. . They tell you, what they think is going to happen to you and they see visions [00:23:00] because they're the embodiment of these ancestral spirits at the time.

[00:23:04] Oh, I forgot this part. So the things that they said they have items that they will like... Bestow on people to help them manifest stuff. It's in a cow horn I forget the name that he used for it But it's in the horn of a cow that they keep these things and they walk around with it And people will literally just be like, you know They'll get down and be like hey, by the way I need some help and they'll come help you and tell you what they can do for you So this is really popular A lot of the people, a lot of the people in these different towns will come out, and every town has different costumes.

[00:23:36] And, I was looking on the internet, the most, what I found, the most elaborate costumes that I found were most of like Yoruba people who lived in Benin. Their costumes were extreme, and they look very heavy, and everyone looks hot. I don't know how they're wearing that. It's hot!

[00:23:58] Adwoa: Like

[00:23:59] Ashley: the one [00:24:00] thing I mean, the weather may be different like in Ghana when I was in Ghana, and this was I was in Ghana was summertime, but like the good thing about it is it's not like so humid. Yeah, it's mostly just hot. So like you're even though it's 90 degrees you it's fine, because there's a breeze and you're okay.

[00:24:17] But I still don't know how people are wearing all this You're gonna see on the blog all these clothes. It's a lot and they're wearing a mask and they're wearing It's like and some of them have costumes Where they're just covered by leaves, also hot. I don't know how everyone's not sweating their butts off.

[00:24:39] Yeah, that's crazy. I don't know how. Yeah.

[00:24:43] Adwoa: I don't feel hot just thinking about it. I guess it's the same way people like, wear like, mascot costume like, outfits in like, parades and stuff like that. Yeah. Like, you're, I guess you're ready for it, because that's... I have two hours and I'm out.[00:25:00]

[00:25:00] Don't ask me anything after these two hours. I'm best in that part.

[00:25:09] Ashley: My shift is over after this. I need water and I need rest. I'm tired. Also this celebration according to According to, yeah, I mean, he's, that's the name my fans hate. According to him this lasts for like 24 hours. Things will be going on all night also. I guess they gotta have a lot of shift changes because everyone's tired.

[00:25:29] You'll hear people on the street at night. Obviously, it's not gonna be as loud. But people are doing stuff at night. People are doing special rituals at night. And all of this is, from... Hundreds and thousands of years ago. So this has been going on and on for forever.

[00:25:44] And Just a quick note, we're not going to actually talk about the Orishas this time, because I found this other thing that we're going to talk about, don't worry about it. But anyway the Orishas that, like, if people are like, well, I don't understand this culture, a lot of people in the Americas know the Orishas because we have a lot [00:26:00] of what they call African traditional religions, or diasporic traditional religions, like Santeria, especially if you live in the northeast like I do.

[00:26:08] You're in New York, you know a Puerto Rican who knows, ask any Puerto Rican what Santeria is. They'll tell you. They're either scared of it or they think it's great. We'll tell you everything about it. So that's, this is the culture where this festival is coming from, if you're wondering what I'm talking about.

[00:26:23] So yeah, that is the Agungun Festival. It's very cool. We were watching videos of it and my fiancé's like, I don't want to have a nightmare, turn it off. Even though he's like lived it, I'm like, this is your life. I know,

[00:26:40] but I'm scared. I'm like, okay. It's just so funny. But the costumes are cool, and I don't know who's making these costumes, because they're, the whole thing about it is the people who are in, people know who are like in these families, but you don't know who's under the costume, and that's part of it, and actually there's parts [00:27:00] of Different beliefs, but it depends on where you are that people are like they cover their whole body So you don't you can't even see these people's hands or feet.

[00:27:09] You can't see anything. You don't know who's under there But again at that point, they're like the embodiment of that spirit. So it's not like them Like I said, their voices change there. They might they're dancing a lot. They're doing all this stuff. So it's It's similar if people want to think of it like scientifically.

[00:27:27] It's like being in a trance. They're in like a spiritual trance. So they're not here with us doing things that like to you made me like, Oh, this is weird, but it's not weird for them. They're just like, in that spiritual space. So That's that festival. Look it up. Again, I'm gonna put pictures up. It's fun. Okay, so then I was like, what are we going to talk about today?

[00:27:48] Because you guys talk about a lot of really cool stuff on your content And I was like, I want to find something that like I don't know about either so we can all learn together So [00:28:00] you guys may have heard of this I never heard of this and I actually found this out because I was like Doing something, reading something about, like, Mommy Watch the Spirits, and then this came up, and I'd never heard of this.

[00:28:08] Okay. So we're actually traveling. Get on your, get your passports, everybody. We're going from Western Africa, and we're going all the way to the East. What? Yeah, it's gonna be fun. Yeah. Yeah, so we're going all the way to we got like a Somalian Sudanese kind of situation here And we're gonna talk about czar.

[00:28:26] This is literally it's just called czar Yeah, and I was like what czar now you'll find out so czar is like a couple different things So czar refers to the spirit it can also Referred to like a spiritual tradition or a set of ceremonies and it's mostly a spirit that deals with women But it can't deal with men sometimes and it actually deals with people who are creative like artists Yeah, which is interesting.

[00:28:57] There's not a lot of written records And I think [00:29:00] it's also because these are countries that like Sudan Somalia that have been like Muslim for a really long time So a lot of those really old things aren't really popular in the culture anymore, but it's in the folk culture. Yeah, so in a lot of countries, actually, it's completely illegal to even deal with these czar.

[00:29:21] Actually, the former president Nasser of Egypt tried to make it out, tried to make it illegal to like talk about it, because he was like, we're not talking about this anymore. Oh, okay. Yeah, there is a situation. So czar, they believe could be like a subset of jinn, but they also say it's not because it's completely forbidden in Islam to consort with jinn and czar spirits.

[00:29:50] are different and you'll see. So this is, it's very secretive, but it is something that is known throughout different parts of eastern and northern [00:30:00] Africa and wherever there's been people who have moved around in that area. It seems to have started in Ethiopia and or parts of Sudan. And they, so the czar spirits Are these spirits that possess people and they cause a lot of these symptoms So if somebody is possessed by a czar spirit, it's said it's not even possessed So possess is like our word that we have to use because that's how our language is But for them they call it being covered or being clothed.

[00:30:33] That's what it's translated to And this Symptoms of a czar possession are infertility, mallees, seizures, or being accident prone. Maybe you're falling all the time or something like that. And if it's truly a czar possession no medical treatment will help. These people will just continuously have these problems.

[00:30:54] So they have to go see somebody who's basically like a specialist in the czar. So like a shamanic [00:31:00] specialist. Most of these shamanic czar specialists are women, and the victims are usually women. So I found this super interesting that a lot of the time the victims are divorced women, or on women in an unhappy marriages.

[00:31:15] And I was like, huh?

[00:31:21] Adwoa: Interesting.

[00:31:23] Ashley: Yeah, I was like, when I'm happy marriage is okay. So there was also like a theory because when like When Western people came in and they were like, what is going on with these people? They were like, maybe the theory is that these women wanted things or like, they needed to get out of situations.

[00:31:40] And they were like, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna pretend I'm possessed. So that my husband leaves me alone. Yeah, I see. So they were saying like, yeah, that may be like, part of it. But they don't know for sure. Also... In different parts of the world that read this somewhere [00:32:00] but like for instance the term running amok like people say Oh, this person's running amok.

[00:32:05] This is very as specific mental illness specific to like Southeast Asia because like sometimes people just like lose their shit like that's just a thing that happens there and There's a lot more specific mental illnesses than I think we know. So some people think this might be like that, like a regional mental illness.

[00:32:27] Also, like, I remember, okay, years ago I went to Israel to visit my friend because she was living there. And... They have like a ward in most mental hospitals just for people who think they're Jesus Christ. Isn't that crazy? What? A whole ward? Yeah, there's that many

[00:32:44] Adwoa: people. Yeah! This is considered? People

[00:32:49] Ashley: just like go there and think they're Jesus and they're like, oh.

[00:32:52] Yeah, I'm Jesus now. And they're like, no, you're not just a woodfield like 50

[00:32:55] Adwoa: Jesus. No. The thing I can imagine that the receptionist there, you're like, oh, Jesus. [00:33:00] Yeah.

[00:33:04] Ashley: They're like another one.

[00:33:07] Adwoa: Yeah,

[00:33:12] Ashley: I know. They're like, this is the 40th person today who thought they were Jesus Christ. Okay. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. They think, oh, and the other reason they were like, these are unhappy housewives is because these czar spirits, they crave very specific things. It's always like luxury items.

[00:33:29] It's like very fancy perfumes, very fancy foods. Yeah. Fancy clothes. They're like, oh, are these just women who want stuff and their husbands aren't buying them?

[00:33:40] Adwoa: Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if that's what it is. These are very specific sets of circumstances that

[00:33:52] Ashley: okay. And you we actually also talked about this in a different episode, that we were talking about Southeast Asian [00:34:00] spirits, like these scary spirits, and we were talking about how a lot of them were like, women, who like, were vampiric women, like they would, Kill these people just like because they were wrong and our guest at the time son.

[00:34:11] She was making a point She's think about like and this happened all over the world, right? Women who are disenfranchised who like a long time ago They weren't allowed to have jobs or like they had to stay home The only way they could get what they want were by being sneaky about it.

[00:34:24] So they'd be like I'm possessed! I need a new dress now! Like,

[00:34:34] Adwoa: I need better clothes! It's not weird, cause, like,

[00:34:42] Ashley: I didn't ask you to do it. I was possessed by this spirit! And like... And we talked about, like in the case of those other spirits, these South Asian spirits, we were talking about how, a lot of the time, it was like, the story was like, oh, a woman who got pregnant and her husband left her to deal with the child.

[00:34:59] So she [00:35:00] became an angry spirit. Because just don't do that. Yeah. That was like the story. Now she runs around and kills men and sucks their hearts out. Yeah, because just Don't abandon your baby. Yes.

[00:35:17] Back in the day, people were probably just this is, these stories will inspire people to not do things wrong, right? Do the right thing. Buy your wife a new dress, if you're the one who's making the money, I guess. So the other thing about czar spirits. Okay. So they crave, Oh, they crave.

[00:35:35] They're very attracted to humans, they want to, possess people, and they get different offerings just depending on the spirit. So how they identify a Tsar spirit is that the Tsar spirit will reveal itself during a ceremony, it will speak through the possessed person it may come to, like, the shaman who's trying to help that person in a dream, and it may take Oh, by the [00:36:00] shaman will take like an item from the woman who thinks she might be possessed and put it under their pillow so that when they sleep, they can dream and figure it out.

[00:36:07] They need to be in a body. They need to use the body as a proxy. They will ask the human to do whatever it is that they need. So if the czar's like, I want a green dress, you have to get that human a green dress. If they want like, This fancy incense, you have to get it for them. And the czar are really rebellious and they do things that like, quote unquote, women aren't supposed to do or like proper, not proper for women.

[00:36:30] Like they want to drink maybe a lot of alcohol. They want to go to a lot of parties. They want to smoke lots of cigarettes and do like all that rebellious stuff. But the difference between a lot of czar, except and we're going. Which is interesting. So czar can be different religions also. You can have muslim czar and you can have christian czar.

[00:36:50] You can have like Indigenous religion, czar, whichever one. So like, for instance, Muslim czar, they don't drink. And Muslim czar [00:37:00] are the only ones that can be exorcised. They're the only ones that can come out of your body. Because the, imam has a special way of doing like a Quranic exorcism.

[00:37:08] They're the only ones that can be expelled. The rest of them stay in your body for the rest of your life. And that's it. Wow. Wait

[00:37:15] Adwoa: so you can have more than one in the unit and only like the Muslim one at least or is it if you just happen to have the Muslim one, it's curable?

[00:37:22] Ashley: If you happen to have the Muslim one, it's curable.

[00:37:25] If it's not Muslim, it doesn't care. Yes.

[00:37:29] Adwoa: How do you find out which one you have? Because

[00:37:36] I'm trying to find out, does my dog speak Spanish? Right.

[00:37:45] Can you respond to me

[00:37:51] Ashley: it? So as me not being a czar specialist, I'm assuming that your czar doctor will tell you, like they'll [00:38:00] diagnose you like you have a Muslim czar, so we can go to your local Imam and they can help you. Or like yours, they're like, yours are, don't believe in nothing. So I don't know what you're gonna do.

[00:38:09] Oh, good. I know, I'm like, what if your czar is like an atheist? I don't know what you'd do.

[00:38:16] Adwoa: Yeah, I know. It's not looking good. It's not looking

[00:38:22] Ashley: good. So because the only czar that leave are the Muslim ones you're like, oh no, what do I do if I don't have a Muslim czar? Yeah, well girl, you're gonna have to deal with it because this is what happens.

[00:38:32] So They say that the czar spirit can actually become an ally But you have to go to like your czar doctor to figure this out. They have to figure out How to appease the Tsar. Get it whatever it wants, I guess. And then they do ceremonies, they drum, they dance. Sometimes they do sacrifices of an animal that they usually eat afterwards.

[00:38:56] And this can take a few days to a few [00:39:00] hours. This can take a while. Each czar is completely different. They want completely different things, and like I said already about the Oh, and one thing I thought was hilarious is non Muslim czar, they all drink alcohol, but Muslim czar like soda.

[00:39:20] There you go. If you're drinking soda and you're like, yep, that's it, my czar

[00:39:27] likes this soda, then you czar. Or you do have a Muslim czar. They also typically like fruit, cheese, olives, beer perfume. Again, if it's not a if it's a Muslim, they won't drink the beer. Ethiopian czar like coffee. A lot of Ethiopian people drink coffee, so I guess that's common there. And they have special talismans, the Ethiopian ones that they make.

[00:39:50] And they really like henna and incense and flowers and roses. Oh, back to the ceremony. So these czar ceremonies trying to figure out, [00:40:00] like, how... How we can appease it and integrate it into you. They, like I said, they take, they can take days or hours depending on how, like, I guess, crazy your czar is.

[00:40:12] And the whole point is to try to make them work with you. So sometimes people will see it as a blessing because they'll be like, Actually, if I can get this czar to, not be, like, making me tired and sick all the time, I actually, the spirit of the Tsar will help you attain the things that you want and help the people around you attain the things that you want.

[00:40:31] So those people end up being like good luck people if we can get this under control. Some Tsar, which I think is also crazy, can be passed from mother to daughter as a guardian. Yeah, so this is just a generational Tsar issue.

[00:40:49] Adwoa: It's Like, huh? But if your mum wants the same things Then, yeah, okay, fair enough.

[00:40:56] Ashley: I guess it's like passed through your umbilical cord. Yeah, does it [00:41:00] happen like during birth?

[00:41:01] Adwoa: Or does it just happen like, randomly like, say,

[00:41:04] Ashley: during puberty or Cause I guess like,

[00:41:08] Adwoa: Children don't really want specific things.

[00:41:11] Ashley: Like,

[00:41:12] Adwoa: I don't want everything. No. Like,

[00:41:13] Ashley: No. It's like alcohol or like perfume. Do you know? And yeah. It makes a lot. Well, I wonder too, because. You think of like you just said puberty that's a really there's a lot of things right all over the world puberty ceremonies to signify So I would think that like that would be a good time if your neighborhood czar is gonna possess you they'll be like Oh, she's becoming a woman like let's Go make her want expensive perfume now, I don't know, yeah, it's interesting.

[00:41:41] I was like, huh, okay, mom to daughter. And yeah, like I already said, Zar can be different in different countries and different places. So I just think, I thought it was interesting because, like, you don't, we don't know a lot about like, pre Islamic. Like, Africa on that side, you [00:42:00] don't like hear a lot about it.

[00:42:01] And even like the folk stuff, it's a lot of it's been snuffed out. So I was like, huh, this is this is something that has survived a long time. Again, it seems to be a more secretive thing now because of these places all being. But this is apparently I think in Sudan I was reading this can be like a real issue.

[00:42:20] Like people really will have really big problems with these czars. So it's important. I guess they were saying that like We don't completely get rid of this because people, even if something is just a belief, it's still that powerful, right? People are still gonna be, yeah, people are still gonna be affected by it.

[00:42:37] If every, if people have this belief and you're like no, you can't do anything about it, then you have a woman who, like, cannot function because she's no, I have this thing and I need this special kind of spiritual priest, doctor, shaman, whatnot. Yeah, I think. I think sometimes people are very quick to be like, we don't need to talk about these rituals or these mythologies.

[00:42:58] And it's like, no, but. [00:43:00] It's ingrained in the culture, right? Like, yeah. At one point in time,

[00:43:05] Adwoa: it becomes someone's reality. And, because if you think about it enough, it becomes your reality. And, even in, like with, like when talking about dealing with mental health or mental issues, you have to address it and deal with it within the lens or the worldview that they know of.

[00:43:21] Yeah. Rather than just trying to tell them, Oh no, you're. Never talk about it or chastise them. Yeah. Because that can do a lot more damage than, you

[00:43:31] Ashley: know, helping them through it. Exactly, and I think of all the, Nollywood movies you watch, right? Every movie, what happens in the end?

[00:43:39] Somebody does something wrong, and they shouldn't have done it, and they quote unquote run mad. This is like a, this is, when I remember, like, when I'm growing up, I just assume, I know people have schizophrenia, I know, understand that. But to me running mad was always seen as Oh, somebody did something like, that's always what I believed when I was a kid.

[00:43:59] Because I would watch [00:44:00] Aki and Popo and all those people. And that's what happened in all the movies.

[00:44:10] I really like, and honestly, to a degree. And, like, when I talk to, my dad and I talk to my fiance, it's the same thing, we talk about these stories of people who, quote unquote ran mad, but, like, again, in the United States, in the Western world, it would be seen very different, but there, it was like, no, it's because X, Y, and Z happened, or they did this, or somebody didn't like them, and then this happened to them, and, like, For everybody there, it's, even though it's like a most, a lot of West African , it's still like, oh no, like, this is what actually happened.

[00:44:42] And when people discount that, it's bad. And yeah, we all have to be more culturally sensitive. Definitely. Yeah, so that's your mental health moment from somebody who's not a mental health person, me.

[00:44:58] But yeah so that's Czar [00:45:00] Spirits. Now you know about that. We do. Thank you. Never heard of them

[00:45:03] Adwoa: before. Never heard. That's really

[00:45:05] Ashley: interesting. Yeah, me either. I was like, what the hell is this? Yeah. One thing I like too, and I mean, I think all cultures are like, I think I've noticed this in like African mythology and you guys can tell me what you think though, too.

[00:45:21] But like One thing I think about in African mythology a lot of different places in Africa Most spirits aren't like just like good or bad. I feel like in a lot of Western stuff. It's this is good or this is bad. And in African mythology, everybody's, mixed. It's very, normal human behavior.

[00:45:39] Like, this one doesn't like this one, and this one's fighting with this one. And sometimes they like, and sometimes those two bang, but they're not married and it's fine. Like, yeah,

[00:45:47] Adwoa: It's very humanized.

[00:45:48] Ashley: Yeah, which I think...

[00:45:50] Adwoa: Great, because it makes it more easy to understand, more relatable in a sense.

[00:45:55] Yeah, and it's more likely to help you through learning about life's experiences. [00:46:00] But I think the whole idea of good and evil sort of came with like the colonization and those doctrines and the ideas, because before the ideas of good and evil, good and A scale of how people behaved or, what they did or it wasn't that this is good and this is evil.

[00:46:20] But once like colonization came in, it was a, this guy's the devil, this guy's good. You have to categorize it in these two ways. And then people started to adapt to that and then that's when you start getting people doing things spiritually, which is just bad. Or which is good. And yeah, that's, yeah, it's interesting.

[00:46:42] It's interesting to see how it's developed.

[00:46:44] Ashley: Yeah, it really is. And I think I think like you just said it helps people, well, both of you just said this, it helps people a lot more when you can look at even the stories of the deities and these different things, even, especially I'm thinking of the Orishas, especially like, they [00:47:00] argue, they like don't get along sometimes, this one doesn't like this one.

[00:47:03] But, there's a lot, there's so many stories of them and then there's stories where they all come together because they're like, well, we have to deal with this shit, or like, we have to deal with this, we have to just get along for today and then we're not going to talk again. Like, that's fine.

[00:47:17] But I think it shows so many stories. There's so many stories that show like community and forgiveness and like working together and I like really, and it's more, it's way more about community. All these mythologies are more about community and community help. Like everybody ends up having to help everybody.

[00:47:37] And I think, Like, when you think of a lot of, the major Western religions, it's all about the individual, you have to be good, and if you're not, you're gonna go to hell or whatever, but this is no, we all as a community have to work together, because we're not gonna eat if we don't, do some type of ritual for this god or goddess, or like, All our water is going to go bad, and we're not going to be able to fish, so we all have to hang out together and like, get along, even though I hate my neighbor and [00:48:00] she's a bitch.

[00:48:00] Like, but we also have to... For this week,

[00:48:04] Adwoa: we all have to get along. We all have to get along.

[00:48:08] Ashley: I really enjoy that, and I love the way that you guys present the stories. I like, really admire, first of all, your art is amazingly beautiful, and the way you explain the stories are Easy for everybody to understand and I feel like easy to relate and I love that you're just like bringing this to the forefront.

[00:48:27] I think it's really cool. So thank you. You're doing everyone a service. Yeah, absolutely. You're doing us all this service, so thank you. So now we can come to the end of the show. So I just wanna thank you guys for being here and just let everybody know where they can find you, like on the internet and all that good stuff.

[00:48:45] Adwoa: So you can find us on Instagram and TikTok at, so it h e a d e c h e dot. I tell you, .

[00:48:54] Ashley: Yeah, it's hard to

[00:48:55] Adwoa: talk. I'm not gonna spell it right.

[00:48:58] Ashley: All the links will be in the show [00:49:00] notes anyway, so you just literally have to go to the show notes and click and you'll find all their social media, I promise.

[00:49:06] Amazing. Or you can find our

[00:49:08] Adwoa: work on our website you can buy stuff, beautiful art to your house. There's definitely something that you'll connect with at adechi. com. Yeah. And we have a podcast as well, Afro Mythos, where we speak more about the deities and the folklore stories. Yeah,

[00:49:24] Ashley: that's about it.

[00:49:25] Yes. Listen to their podcast. You guys also have very nice voices. I enjoy listening to it. Yeah. It's very therapeutic. It makes me feel really good and relaxed. And it's the accent. Yeah, everybody, especially Americans love a British accent. When I used to go to school, people were like, is your mom coming?

[00:49:44] I love the way she talks. I'm like, okay, calm down. Calm down, it's not that exciting. Like, when you hear it every day, you're like, it's not, it's fine.

[00:49:55] Adwoa: When she lost it.

[00:49:57] Ashley: If my friends, people who don't know, they're like, Oh, your mom, the [00:50:00] accent's really strong, but then when she speaks to, her siblings, they don't think so.

[00:50:03] They think it's, so faded, but, I don't know, because it's hard, I hear it every day. It's the same thing, like, my, my dad's been here since, the 70s, but, my friends are like, I can barely understand your father! And I'm like, I don't know,

[00:50:16] Adwoa: like,

[00:50:20] Ashley: His accent's fine. I don't see what the difficulty is, but whatever. But but thank you everybody. All those links will be in this show notes. Thank you again for being here. Once again, this is Dine with the Divine. We're on Apple. We're on all the major platforms. It's free.

[00:50:35] Subscribe. Why not? You can find us on Dine with the Divine at gmail. com if you want. Dine with the Divine pod at gmail. com if you want to email us. Social media on Dine with the Divine like TikTok and Instagram and all that good stuff. And if you want to follow me, Ashley, I'm SankofaHS. That's S A N K O F A H S.

[00:50:54] And Sankofa Healing Sanctuary on Facebook. And once again, thank you guys so [00:51:00] much for being here. Thank you Samuel. Thank you, Ajwa. This has been so much fun. And we're gonna have all a good day and have a great week and I'll see you next time. Bye!

[00:51:11] MacBook Air Microphone-6: everybody. So, you know, this episode, we talked a lot about the Gungan festival. And I said, one of my main sources was my lovely fiance. He is here with us and he's going to do the voice that I was telling you about. So I'm going to let him introduce himself.

[00:51:28] Good evening, everybody. My name is yummy. Yeah. Um, I was born in a town called eat, carry. Yuki T in Southwest Nigeria. So I grew up, enjoy attending. Eagle festival. I remember very well. When I was in primary school. After school hours, we have to go to the market, please. To see different egg lagoon. Party Dean. Um, going around different [00:52:00] houses. And I remember. They talk. Um, everything. Um, because I was really it's. It was part of my shadow. So, so you ready? So now he's going to example for eyes on how they founded when they would be telling people different prophecy or just talking in general, right? Yeah. These are the masquerade, the, a group of, spirits with the people in the costumes. This is how they would speak to other people. Right. Yes. Okay. So Wendy. I left in front of your house. Uh, to let you know that they get news. I run, even walking on the street, you will know. Uh, there was, uh, the, um, You know, greeting is.

[00:52:57] It means the visitor. [00:53:00] The house. Uh, good greens. And they just greet.

[00:53:13] voice to like singing. You know, You know, very live, very loving and in little kitty. I've been a little scared with romp, you know, both. As, you know, as gets used to everything, I, you know, I have someone from my friend died from, you know, they get guru. Family house, you know, That would make me nor little bit about them. So like, I don't get scared more. So, yeah. [00:54:00]

[00:54:08] That means do we do this yet? And they will do the next year. They will do many, many more Festiva. Oh, yeah. Okay.

[00:54:19] Oh, There you go, everybody. Wasn't that a treat? Thank you so much.

[00:54:27] So now, you know, the man that I talk about all the time.

[00:54:34] I hope you enjoyed this little extra.

[00:54:41] Ashley: Um, uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh,[00:55:00]

[00:55:05] Uh,

[00:55:11] Uh, Uh, Uh,

[00:55:26] Uh, Oh,[00:56:00]

[00:56:03] Mhm. Yeah.

[00:56:10] Thank you thank you. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah.