Divination and the story of Jason and Medea with Laylla and Chelle from Back on the Broomstick

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[00:00:00] Ashley: Hi everybody. And welcome to Dine with the Divine. I'm your host, Ashley. And today we will be talking about the magical, the mystical, and everything in between. So on today's episode, we're going to chat a lot about divination and a witch involved in one of the greatest love slash tragedies of Greek mythology.

[00:00:25] So I hope everyone's having a wonderful week. And if you're not, I hope it gets better soon. We have a twofer. I love a twofer. This is going to be great. We have the fabulous host of the Back to the Broomstick podcast, Layla and Chelle. So hi, guys. How are you? Hi, guys. Okay,

[00:00:45] Laylla: thanks for having us on.

[00:00:47] Ashley: So back on the broomstick is a weekly podcast covering modern pagan and witchcraft practices. The show is the brainchild of two witch friends with decades of experience under the belts. The podcast is more than just a [00:01:00] discussion. It's a journey of reconnection. After years immersed in the mundane, our hosts are diving back into the mystical.

[00:01:07] re walking the path of the wise and exploring the ever evolving world of modern witchcraft and pagan practices. Through these discussions, interviews with authors and prominent pagans, books, and tool reviews, Back on the Broomstick aims to be a modern witch's spoken word grimoire. Each episode is a magical exploration where our hosts reconnect with their pagan roots, trying out the latest spells, rituals, and delve deep into magical theory.

[00:01:34] It's a blend of 90s witchcraft and contemporary practices, making it a must listen for both seasoned witches and newcomers to the path. Join us! Well, not right now, join them on this, on their changing path. Right now, this is a different podcast, but go listen to that one too. Listen to us

[00:01:55] Laylla: after.

[00:01:55] Listen to the book first.

[00:01:56] Ashley: Exactly. Or if you want to pause and you want to go, that's [00:02:00] fine. I'm not offended. Please go. It's good. Go listen to theirs too. It's fine. Just leave us both alone. Yes! Okay. So, I always ask everybody and whoever wants to go first can go first. I always ask everybody how you got to start with your spiritual journey slash path slash interests.

[00:02:22] How did you, how did we get here? What's your origin story? I'll

[00:02:25] Chelle: let you go first, Jayla.

[00:02:27] Laylla: Oh, okay. All right. I'll go first. Like a lot of witches, this is a great question, Ashley. I love this because people have such similar and yet also such different origin stories. There's, you hear a lot.

[00:02:39] I always knew and I guess. I was always very witchy, I was always the kid in my backyard making potions out of, nettles and flowers and apple blossoms and that kind of thing. And it was always an interest. I loved tales of mythology. I loved stories of Avalon [00:03:00] and the stories, fables from around the world just really drew me.

[00:03:05] And then I think It was the early 80s, I think, when I first heard the term witch applied to someone of an earth based religion that had a lot of the same beliefs that I did. It might have been drawing down the moon. It could have been one of Laurie Cabot's first books. I'm not sure what it was exactly, but I heard that term and I was like, that's me.

[00:03:27] This fits so perfectly when nothing else had really fit before. And that has begun a lifelong love of studying this craft and this path. And, I'm still learning just as much as I was back then, but. Yeah. I know that I am a witch now, and I think that's, it's a wonderful thing to be. But that's how I started.

[00:03:49] I always knew that there was something, I just didn't know the term of it until I heard witch.

[00:03:56] Chelle: I didn't get to, I didn't get to hear that term until I was more of a [00:04:00] later teen, unfortunately. I just knew that my family was trying to get me to go to church services, and that. In honest terms, that shit felt whack and it wasn't me and it didn't fit and it just, it wasn't happening and it wasn't until Laurie Cabot's Power of the Witch that I was like Oh, so I'm not just some weirdo from some small town, it, there was Laila said, the word witch that really.

[00:04:34] The way I was raised, more reflected an actual human being and not a fairytale.

[00:04:39] .

[00:04:39] Chelle: Because that's how it was portrayed. These people who do magic, they're in the movies, they're, that, that shit's fake kind of thing.

[00:04:46] .

[00:04:46] And it, it took that book to make me realize that shit ain't really so fake, is it?

[00:04:51] It just seems to be a very common a common theme that runs through a lot of people's, origin stories or how they found [00:05:00] this path is that they had a feeling or were interested in mythology or interested in these tales, but the idea of which was always portrayed as something bad.

[00:05:10] Ashley: And

[00:05:11] Laylla: so it wasn't until. Maybe you found another person who is a witch in real life that you really realized that it could be what you were feeling and what you were following. You just didn't have the term for it. But it's a lot easier to find now than when Chell and I started, which I absolutely love.

[00:05:30] Chelle: But funny story. So in retrospect, you go back and you think about elementary school and middle school and high school. They were teaching us stuff back then that we just didn't realize was some witchcraft.

[00:05:42] And a lot of where I got my interest in mythology was actually in high school. And Those were the pieces that started getting put together.

[00:05:54] But a lot of the basis of a lot of the lore that I had knew back at the time, and a lot of the [00:06:00] mythology I knew back at the time, the basis came right from high school.

[00:06:03] Ashley: I think it's so we, I talk about folklore a lot on this podcast, obviously. So, And we talk about this with other guests too, I really do think, like you said, folklore and a lot of mythology is magic, basically, because it's all based on this, magical thinking.

[00:06:22] Or, I always like to say that, this is my theory, and I've been saying this since I was a kid, I was like, some of this gotta be true. Because, I was like, everyone can't just make up all these stories. Like, don't they make That's all the

[00:06:35] Laylla: same,

[00:06:36] Ashley: right? Yes! There's so

[00:06:37] Chelle: many Yes, that's the thing, the similarities.

[00:06:39] Ashley: Yes, there's so many origin stories that are exactly the same. There's stories in so many parts of the world about a flood. So I'm like this flood thing must happen at some point, right? And then when people talk about even the way they do certain magic and , using certain things and using certain elements in every society,, in most societies, [00:07:00] these elements are either similar.

[00:07:02] Maybe the herbs they use are similar. The reasons they use them are similar. It's such a universal concept and that's what we had before we had anything else. It was just people trying to figure out how to survive and using whatever they had around them. And sometimes she just worked and they didn't really know why they were like, Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like it wasn't in. Yes. And it wasn't maybe like completely Scientific where they're like, oh, this shit seems to be working. Okay, like so

[00:07:33] Laylla: we'll

[00:07:34] Ashley: just

[00:07:34] Laylla: keep doing it Yes, and they lived in such in tune with themselves and with the seasons and with each other And when you live like that's a universal way of being you're going to find these cyclical things that kind of That work for you.

[00:07:49] The moon is going to be important to you The seasons because you're you know agrarian society or you're a hunter society You These are all going to be similar things that are [00:08:00] important, that are life giving, that become holy because of that. And so you'll find these similar themes of the mother, of the life giver, of the hunter, of life and death and rebirth.

[00:08:11] And they're so universal that, like you said I felt, Ashley, I'm reading these stories, I'm like, there's got to be truth here. If there's so many that are tied and woven together like this, I felt like there was. There had to be something that connected us all to the earth because we're all intimately connected to her.

[00:08:29] And through these fables, I found my way to what felt like a universal truth.

[00:08:34] Chelle: And it's a similar concept with deity as well. Any deity, and you can find that same exact deity by a different name in every other culture, in every other mythos. So, how can it be wrong if we're really all thinking the same thing, just calling it by different names?

[00:08:53] Ashley: Yeah. Exactly. I was just looking that up the other day, there, in certain cultures, there's [00:09:00] deities of, disease or deities of, sickness. And, but every single culture has one. So they were, so every single culture was like, you know what, there's something that maybe if we give it Offerings and shit, it'll calm down.

[00:09:14] And so, like, everybody's sick. Everybody figured, Yeah, we need to appease this. And, like you said, too, Layla, people are living by their elements, right? So that goes into what Chelle said, if we know that the moon is controlling the water because this is what we figured out, and we're having all these problems, now we have to appease the water god, maybe we have to appease the moon god, and I bet that, and some people may say, we, it was coincidence, Okay, fine.

[00:09:40] Maybe it was. It doesn't even matter to be honest. That's another thing. I just want to bring that up. People will try to, discount magic because they'll be like, Well, it was coincidental. Okay, and?

[00:09:51] Laylla: How do you prove a coincidence?

[00:09:53] Ashley: Yeah, how do you prove it was a coincidence? And if a coincidence is constantly happening, you can't tell me that it's not.

[00:09:59] There's got to be [00:10:00] truth

[00:10:00] Chelle: to it.

[00:10:01] Ashley: Yeah, exactly. And then people like to do this thing where they talk about like, Okay. Or people will try to, okay, magic is, and I feel like all people know this who like love magic, there is science to it, even though other people don't really believe that there is. And that's fine.

[00:10:18] Don't get me into it. I don't know about quantum physics and that stuff. I know that people will say, well, even the secret, right? When I, the secret came out, it was like, Oh my God. But it was just like a thing that people had already been. It's just rebranded. So yeah. It was new thought. I think that people said, so it was like, people just were like, if you think positively good things will happen. Yeah. People like, well, that's a coincidence. Yeah. Okay. So it's working. Let's keep

[00:10:42] Chelle: doing it. Different than what you put out comes back to you. How's that different?

[00:10:47] How's that different? Exactly.

[00:10:50] Laylla: And there is the scientific theory, there's like the blue car theory. And that's a scientifically proven thing that if you are going to buy, say, a [00:11:00] blue car, you will suddenly start to see blue cars everywhere. And our brains do work that way. So if you're doing a spell to bring serenity and peace and calm into your life, that's going to help you start to see that in the world over and over again.

[00:11:15] So that is then going to bring that into your life.

[00:11:18] Chelle: And that literally happened to me. I was getting a new car about a year and a half ago. And I thought about getting a blue car. And that's all I saw. I swear, all I saw was blue cars. I had to find a white car. And now every car I see is white.

[00:11:31] Ashley: Exactly. And it's the same thing. Like they will see like people who are going through any type of sickness and things. People who can either get through it. Like say they're going through cancer and they're getting treatments for their cancer. People who pray to say get it's, they have better outcomes.

[00:11:51] And then some people will say, no, that's just because they were being positive. Yeah, it's the same thing.

[00:11:56] Chelle: Yeah, like attracts like, and if exactly, [00:12:00] if you're projecting negative, what was me vibes, you're going to get back negative. What was me vibes? Exactly. If you're projecting positive, productive energy, you're going to get positiveness and productivity back.

[00:12:16] Ashley: Exactly.

[00:12:16] Chelle: People

[00:12:17] Ashley: don't realize that

[00:12:18] Chelle: you call it and I call it being positive. What's, yeah,

[00:12:23] Ashley: every spiritual path, every religion has this same. Idea everyone just calls it different things and then they argue about it, which is stupid So

[00:12:36] like there is literally and then magic to me too, and you guys can also tell me what you think but like magic is a broad term like There's magic in everything everywhere. No matter who you are. No matter what you believe Shit just happens and you're like, I don't know how that shit happened. Like it's just magic, I was talking about this other day, but like just willing [00:13:00] things to happen.

[00:13:00] So that's literally like spells and magic. You are just like using tools sometimes, maybe use a little herb, a little oil, but you're willing something. You're like, this shit's going to happen. Like, it's not

[00:13:12] Chelle: the same. Exactly.

[00:13:14] Ashley: I

[00:13:14] Chelle: always

[00:13:15] Ashley: heard somebody said this along a book that I read, like spells or prayers or props.

[00:13:21] And I'm like, honestly, yeah,

[00:13:25] Laylla: yeah, that's a good way to put it. Pretty much. Yeah. And I know you've said this before, Ashley, and Shell is a huge proponent of this too, but intention is a huge part of your spell work. Your energy, what you're putting out there is the biggest component to your spell. I love the props.

[00:13:43] Don't get me wrong. And I do feel that they definitely help. But, they're mostly there to get my brain in the right, my brain is the biggest magical tool I have, and I'm using that to get props to get my brain into the right magical state, to enact my will. Yeah. [00:14:00] Oh yeah. I love ritual. Love props.

[00:14:01] Love all

[00:14:02] Ashley: the things. It's great. And I love also love a prop because I have trouble focusing. Like

[00:14:09] Chelle: I'm really trying to focus. That's the other good thing. It gives you that point to go back to, whether it be a candle or a bowl of water, a seashell, a rock, a pine cone, it gives you something to center back to if your brain starts to go a little flewy and wander.

[00:14:25] Yes. Oh my gosh.

[00:14:26] Laylla: And mine does. Mine will go squirrel in a heartbeat. So having a flame or something to focus on, having a focus for that intention can be so important.

[00:14:35] Chelle: Yes. And so that's the difference sometimes when we say on our show that tools aren't really necessary. But yet tools are a little necessary.

[00:14:45] It's really to pull that focus back in visually to train your brain. Like Layla says, she's squirrel. And that tool is like, no, back here.

[00:14:56] Laylla: Or shell if she's in ritual with me.[00:15:00]

[00:15:01] Ashley: And that's the next thing I was going to say too. Like you just said the word ritual. Rituals are so important to us like to people and like we did an episode Where we were talking about the puritans and talking about how they ended up with some magic because they didn't have any rituals And then having no rituals literally led to them being like we need a ritual.

[00:15:22] Okay, maybe we'll just do this folk magic stuff like This is not the people we love even like Your standard like praying like you get on your knees you fold your hands That's what most people do or they get on the ground. It's a ritual. It's a way you do it in Islam You wash your feet you get clean then you pray, you know if you're doing spell work in most pagan traditions, you're introducing your spirits in there.

[00:15:50] Like that ritual, it gets you in that mindset. You're like, I'm ready. This is, we're going to get serious right now. I'm going to talk to my creator.

[00:15:58] Chelle: [00:16:00] I think that's sometimes the difference between spell work and ritual. I tell for spell work, I'm more on the fly, but I try to be more.

[00:16:10] Have an altar for ritual. Do things a little more formal, cast a circle, call the quarters, things of that nature. Whereas if I'm just doing spellwork, it might just be me throwing cinnamon sticks out my front door. So, so ritual kind of in my mind is like a more serious endeavor than just say

[00:16:32] Laylla: spellwork.

[00:16:32] That ritual is so important to my brain because If I go to the space where I always go when I do my meditation and I sit on the same cushion, I always sit on and light the incense and start to go through the steps that I always go through. Like you were saying with Islam, you put out the mat, you wash your feet, you make sure you're clean.

[00:16:53] Once you do these steps that gets your brain into the right space, no matter what kind of ritual it is, even if it's making your tea in the [00:17:00] morning, that can become a ritual and by doing that your brain knows this is time to relax or this is time to meditate. And so, you can call upon those little pieces of ritual to get you into that space even when maybe your brain isn't ready to be there.

[00:17:16] Maybe you're super chaotic, and everything's been really stressful. But every day when you make tea, it's peaceful and quiet. As soon as you start to make that tea, it can invoke those feelings and that sense of peace and calm into you. So ritual can be very important part of spell work to get you into that magical place.

[00:17:36] Chelle: I think the repetitiveness of it is also what is a good thing. If you're doing the same repetitive ritual or the same repetitive ritual style you're going to automatically, every time you do that, you're going to automatically get into that state. And there's something to be said for that.

[00:17:57] Ashley: Absolutely. Very good. Talk about [00:18:00] that. Ooh, love it. Okay. So we're going to go to our next section where we're going to talk about our dish of the week. So I'm like, okay, we're talking to some very magical ladies. What are we going to talk about? So I picked this week, we're just going to talk about dandelions.

[00:18:17] Laylla: Yeah, that's my favorite. I love dandelions.

[00:18:21] Ashley: Oh, good. Okay. Okay, so I never knew that dandelions were so great, but I was just like out here, like ripping up dandelions in my yard. And then I found out don't do that.

[00:18:37] They're absolutely amazing. And dandelions are like very magical, right? So we all know The most basic, you rip the dandelion, you blow the little wispies and make a wish. Yeah.

[00:18:50] Chelle: I've been doing that since

[00:18:51] Ashley: I was about

[00:18:52] Chelle: three years old.

[00:18:54] Ashley: And then people are like, yes, exactly. And people are like, don't do that.

[00:18:59] You're going to spread the [00:19:00] dandelions everywhere. I, I'm team dandelion. Do it.

[00:19:03] Laylla: I'm team dandelion. I'm right there with you. Yes. Dandelions everywhere. I love them. They're transformative. They're beautiful. Can I just love them.

[00:19:13] Chelle: Yeah. Can I just submit that confession, last summer I actually did pick a dandelion that was at the Fuzzy's and blew it.

[00:19:22] Ashley: Yeah! I did too.

[00:19:24] Chelle: I said it, I

[00:19:25] Ashley: said it. We're doing it in protest all summer everybody, just so you know. Pick em and blow em. That's what we're doing. Yeah. Yes.

[00:19:32] Laylla: You can eat them. Oh, and make wine. Yep. So many things. Yes. What did you find for us with dandelions?

[00:19:42] Ashley: Okay. So first, just so everybody knows dandelions are amazing.

[00:19:46] So in some, a lot of people believe that dandelions actually represent like this three celestial bodies of the life cycle. So the moon, the sun, the moon and the stars. So they think that like the yellow represents [00:20:00] the sun, then the seeds represent the stars. And when it's like a big puffball, it's the moon.

[00:20:04] And I never thought about that. I was like, Oh, that's so cute.

[00:20:08] Laylla: It's like we're on the same wavelength. I was just thinking about dandelions, like Earlier today wishing that they would come out. I can't wait for dandelion season

[00:20:17] Ashley: me either and this year I'm actually gonna like do something with every year.

[00:20:20] I'm like i'm gonna do it and then like I don't so I'm really gonna pick up and wash them. So they also So the Greeks actually believed, the ancient Greeks actually believed they were a source of strength and power and Theseus, who I don't know who Theseus is guys. Sorry. I didn't look it up. Theseus ate dandelions for 30 days, which seems like a lot of dandelions, but okay.

[00:20:46] But he was prepared for battle with the minotaur, who is, we talked about the minotaur before and you don't want to fight the minotaur. So, that was a good idea. And Maybe he wanted, maybe he

[00:20:56] Chelle: wanted

[00:20:56] Ashley: the fiber for the fight.

[00:20:58] Laylla: I don't know. Vitamin C, right? Lots of [00:21:00] vitamin C. Yeah, he had

[00:21:01] Ashley: to get, any of that extra stuff out.

[00:21:03] The guy got that fiber, got that roughage, and then he had to get the sun. Yeah, he's all right. So then so actually the dandelion comes from the French dente de l'eau. Let's pretend that I know how to speak French and I don't. Yeah, which translates to lion stew. So then I found two neat some recipes.

[00:21:24] So I actually found a website full of recipes. So I put it in the show notes. So one of the recipes I found were these dandelion flower fritters. Yeah, so it's basically like a little fried dandelion with the flowers, the use, use dandelion flowers. Then you put flour, baking soda, salt, a little bit of milk, melted butter, one egg and some oil for frying.

[00:21:49] And you literally just fry them up and they sound delicious.

[00:21:52] Chelle: Sound good.

[00:21:53] Ashley: Yeah, and then, yeah, I know,

[00:21:56] Chelle: I've eaten worse things. How bad can it [00:22:00] be?

[00:22:00] Ashley: It's just a little fried flour, so it's probably great. Like, it probably tastes delicious. And then you have dandelion and honey ice cream. Yeah, so there's some heavy cream, some half and half, some honey, dandelion petals, some salt and six egg yolks, which isn't, that's like, and all these are like super easy.

[00:22:22] Recipes and then we have a dandelion soda one that I drew about. So this one's easy too. So it's two to four packs of two to four cups of packed dandelions, water, sugar, and ginger, and lemon zest. So you make like a ginger starter. You ever like heard of those? It's almost like, like what you start for kombucha, but you can use ginger instead.

[00:22:43] All right. Yeah, it's really interesting. And it's really easy. I don't, I'm gonna find the recipe and put that in the show notes, too, in case people want to do it. Is that like a fire cider? Like a,

[00:22:53] Laylla: like with a

[00:22:53] Ashley: apple cider? It's like a natural soda, basically, that you can make. And you could do it with fire cider, too.[00:23:00]

[00:23:00] But it comes out like a soda. It's really cool.

[00:23:02] Chelle: Yeah, I got a confession for you. I'm not a cooker

[00:23:06] Ashley: You don't have to be you make the soda. It's easy. You don't have to

[00:23:10] Chelle: cook anything Yeah, I do want to I do want to just add real quick that I have made dandelion and mint tea With dried dandelion heads and then mint leaves and let it steep for a few minutes I prefer sugar over honey, but that's a me thing You But

[00:23:28] Ashley: it give it a go.

[00:23:29] Yeah, no sugar over honey is totally fine. Everybody has their thing. I Like honey, but sometimes honey isn't good in everything, sometimes you got to have sugar so I get you don't worry So yeah, those are a couple things. Like I said, there's a link with like 60 dandelion recipes So if you're like, I was what I'll lose my mind with dandelions.

[00:23:49] You can don't worry. It's not a problem I want you

[00:23:52] Chelle: to have a t shirt. Lose my mind with dandelions.

[00:23:55] Ashley: Yeah! You know what? I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna make a logo for that. [00:24:00] Yeah! That's actually a really good idea. Yeah.

[00:24:03] Laylla: I loved dandelions when I was a kid. Again, loved to make magical potions and do things like that.

[00:24:09] And I don't know if everyone knows this, but dandelions have their own magic ink. Like, if you pick a dandelion, you can the milky white substance that comes out of the stalk of a dandelion will stain your skin. So if you put that on your skin a little bit, you can draw sigils, you can draw you can draw little magical symbols, whatever you want, on your skin.

[00:24:30] And it will stain your skin a little bit. It doesn't last very long. It's not toxic or anything. But I used to do that and pretend I was writing in fairy ink. And I would write on my skin a little bit. And you could make little marks. So, use that, you can use that in your spells.

[00:24:46] Ashley: I love that! Yeah, dandelions are

[00:24:48] Laylla: awesome.

[00:24:48] They have so many different things you can do with them. Yes! They're

[00:24:52] Ashley: the easiest flowers

[00:24:53] Chelle: to make flower crowns with.

[00:24:55] Ashley: Okay. That makes a lot of sense. That makes sense. Ohhhh. [00:25:00] Look at all kinds of dandelion ideas. You just write

[00:25:02] Laylla: the base, nice long flowers, and you just weave them together. They're super easy to make flower crowns with.

[00:25:06] Ashley: Yes! Bring back dandelions because they've been demonized, I read this article years ago. Probably I have no concept of time. I probably read it last week, I don't know But it was about how Americans have to have perfect lawns and that's when they started.

[00:25:27] Yeah, that's when they started like demonizing stuff like dandelions because they were like, well, it doesn't make your lawn look perfect. And I was like, who gives a shit? And like, you can eat every part of the dandelion, the leaves, the root, everything is good.

[00:25:41] Chelle: Blood with the dandelions.

[00:25:42] That's what I say. Blood with the damn dandelions.

[00:25:45] Laylla: Make the wish. Go ahead. Make the wish. Don't be afraid.

[00:25:49] Ashley: I know. Life's too short to worry about them weeds, to be honest. Just, it's fine.

[00:25:54] Chelle: Yeah, I just have this vision in my mind of like, because I'm in Salem, I have this vision [00:26:00] of all these people dressed up as witches in that atypical witch outfit, just going down in a neighborhood blowing dandelions on all these manicured lawns.

[00:26:12] Laylla: It's like Johnny Appleseed, but it can be like, haggitha dandelions. There we go. Yes. Spread the dandelions.

[00:26:21] Ashley: Well, you know what? This is dark, but there's when I think it was when the war started with Ukraine. They were talking about how it's a Ukrainian spell to put the sunflower seeds and in the so these women and older women were doing it, they would just walk up to the soldiers and put sunflower seeds in their pockets.

[00:26:42] And they'd like, so sunflowers can grow wherever you die. And I was like, huh? Okay. Yeah, I'm like,

[00:26:49] Chelle: Whatever works for you.

[00:26:51] Ashley: Yeah,

[00:26:51] Laylla: I know. I was like, okay, let's do it. I'm like person a half right there. Talk about killing someone with kindness. Exactly. I was like, where you [00:27:00] die, something beautiful, the symbol of art, the flower of our country will grow.

[00:27:03] Yes. That's a powerful curse, right?

[00:27:06] Ashley: I know. I was like, okay. Ukrainian grandmas, let's go.

[00:27:12] Serious. They're not playing around.

[00:27:13] USB PnP Audio Device: Hey, it's me again. I hope you're enjoying this episode. I just wanted to remind you that if you can't get enough, Of me and the episode, there is an option to hear more. Don't forget about our diners club membership. So if you want to come in and you want to join the Diner's club, you're more than welcome. We have three different levels.

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[00:28:37] Ashley: Okay, so now we're gonna go to our next section our tea time section so I thought we'd just have like a little discussion about Divination, because there are a gazillion different types of divination in the world. You can literally divine anything from anything. And I wanted to [00:29:00] ask the two of you, do you guys have a favorite, well first of all, not everybody does divination, but if you do you have a favorite?

[00:29:08] favorite form of divination. Either one of you, please let me know.

[00:29:12] Laylla: I'm going to introduce shell here for a second. My, my bestie, we have both been professional tarot readers for several decades. I read For other people right now, but tarot was our thing for a long time. And so I'm going to let Shell talk here in a second, but as of last count, now keep in mind I have a spreadsheet.

[00:29:36] She has given me access. to a spreadsheet of the tarot decks this woman owns because she has close to 175,

[00:29:45] Chelle: isn't it? Let's go! She's doing 178 tarot decks currently.

[00:29:52] Laylla: Wow, let's go! Let's let the tarot queen talk about her addiction, her [00:30:00] collection.

[00:30:00] Chelle: It, I don't know if addiction's the right word.

[00:30:03] It is, honey, if the addiction fits. Obsession might be a little far off. I think it's a liking. I like tarot. But you know what, Ashley, truth be told, and this is probably the bitch of the whole thing. I only use like two or three. And for like the past 25 years, I used the same deck . So like to the point where

[00:30:29] Laylla: I, but she keeps, the collection, keeps growing

[00:30:32] Chelle: Like to the point where I wore the pictures off the deck, it was Ellen Cannon Reed, the witches tarot, by the way. Okay. And I had used it. So much that I had worn the pictures off the cards and I had all these decks. Oh no, I go out and buy another witch's tarot. So I do have all of these, but I really actually only use a few.

[00:30:55] Less than five, honestly. When I was in my twenties [00:31:00] back, we won't talk about what year that was or what decade. I had this vision that I was going to have this mansion and I was going to display all these tarot decks all over the walls, in frames and it just turned into, well, that's pretty.

[00:31:15] I like that. Well, that's pretty hard. Well, I like that star card. I like that Empress card. And it just turned into a thing. And now it's even to the point where when my adult children don't know what to buy me say for mother's day or for Christmas or what have you. My birthday. They have access to the spreadsheet as well.

[00:31:39] It's a matter of fact. Yes! For Christmas. Oh my God!

[00:31:46] Ashley: Supernatural

[00:31:47] Chelle: Tarot. I just recently got this over the holidays. Well, yes it's Okay, maybe it's an obsession. She's been like this

[00:31:56] Laylla: for a minute.

[00:31:58] Chelle: I'm never going to [00:32:00] admit that it's an addiction.

[00:32:03] Laylla: It's just a love. It's true love. Tarot is her true love.

[00:32:07] Chelle: It's an appreciation. But I do dabble in other forms of divination. Don't get me wrong. Laila and I went through a good long streak for a while of fire scrying. I totally dug that, totally got into that. But no matter what I end up dabbling in, I always come back to tarot.

[00:32:27] Ashley: It's just

[00:32:28] Chelle: a thing. It's just a thing.

[00:32:29] I don't know why, but it's just a thing.

[00:32:32] Laylla: I'm doing a lot of tarot for myself lately. I've gotten a a copy of Phyllis Curat's Witches Tarot, and it's not something I would use to read for other people, but I love it. for self reflection and for meditation and doing it for myself. So that's been really great for me, but my biggest love came from an episode we did.

[00:32:53] We'd like to try new things, anything we haven't tried before or done before. And one episode [00:33:00] recently, we tried different types of divination

[00:33:02] Ashley: and

[00:33:03] Laylla: I have, I tried bone throwing because it's something that has always fascinated me. Yeah. I was very much drawn to it from the second I started collecting my set.

[00:33:13] I, I knew that this was something that really resonated with me. And so right now I'm doing a lot of that and learning about that and working with my own set and gathering a set. But I'm finding that really helps me to connect with my intuition and trust myself more. The. The tarot cards are each card has a meaning and it's very rich and in depth and it's such a tapestry of meaning and a whole system that's right there for you.

[00:33:42] And it's beautiful in that way. But what I find with the bone set and charm set is that it relies not just on archetypes, but on your own intuition and your own belief in the sense of the symbols. Your own formal symbology.

[00:33:58] Chelle: Yeah.

[00:33:59] Laylla: And [00:34:00] it really allows me to get outside of myself because I do tend to overthink things.

[00:34:04] And so that's why Tarot is so great for introspection.

[00:34:08] Ashley: But if

[00:34:08] Laylla: I want to do divination, I really need to let go of that and to just let the, you the visions flow, the words flow, and I find that a bone set really helps me to do that. So that's my current passion

[00:34:20] Chelle: right now. That's the same reason why I'm going down the road of tea leaf reading, but more in a combining it with tarot kind of way.

[00:34:31] I'll never let tarot go. When we did that episode, I did try the pendulum and I just, not my jam. Like I said, it all comes back to the tarot. But I do think that there is a good way where I can meld tea leaf reading and tarot into, I don't want to say into one, but

[00:34:50] Ashley: It's like I So I also used to do like a lot of work with pendulums.

[00:34:58] I'm not into it anymore [00:35:00] I like I'm I like pendulums are pretty but like I just don't like

[00:35:05] Chelle: Gorgeous, but it's so restrictive in my opinion. I just felt like it was so restrictive for divination Like yeah, yes, no thing great. Perfect real quick and easy, but for straight up divination It's too restrictive for me and I I like the formalness of tarot.

[00:35:26] I like the intuition part of tea leaf reading, but there's just way too much being left a chance with that pendulum and I just maybe it's just I don't get it. That's the ability as well. I could just not get it. I admit to that. But it just I just felt like it was so restrictive as far as divination goes.

[00:35:45] Ashley: Yeah, I agree. And so I find that Yeah, I find that working. I find when you're working with other people, tarot is also easier to do, because they can now see it too. Like, yeah, if you [00:36:00] scry with other people they don't see it or they'll be like, that doesn't look like that to me. Like, and you're like, okay, but you're not the one doing it, but it's okay.

[00:36:08] Chelle: Affirmations from Tarot.

[00:36:10] Ashley: Yeah. Yeah. And people if it's like. I don't want to say like the entertainment factor at all But like if you are working with somebody and doing a reading for them, it's good to show Sometimes a little bit like this is what I'm doing. So you can also be like,

[00:36:27] Laylla: Getting them involved in the process is so important because to get that good energy exchange, you want them to be present with you and you want them to be part of the reading with you. Just like we were saying about ritual.

[00:36:40] Chelle: Yeah. Just like with ritual tools, it gives them a visual focus to come into, to come back to.

[00:36:45] Thank you.

[00:36:46] Laylla: Here's the tower card. This is why things are going terrible in your life right now. Here's the information. They can see that and then be in that space with you and really connect with that energy with you. And I find that does help to give a [00:37:00] good reading when people, we've all had that person who comes to a reading and they sit down and they're like, they close right off.

[00:37:05] Yes. I'm going to test you. I'm going to put a wall possible. And I usually ask those people, I'll be like, all so I know you're here for a reading and I know that you have some walls up, so I'll ask them to verbally give me permission. And that's usually just enough to give a little crack in that wall that I can get in.

[00:37:24] And then having the cards laid down between you and so they can see them, that's enough to open those gates right up. And then that energy starts flowing and you're really in that space together. And that's when you get amazing readings.

[00:37:37] Ashley: Exactly. I know. You're welcome. I like to, and they're like, I don't like that one.

[00:37:41] I'm like, okay, like, that's fine. You don't have to like it. Cause girl. Yeah. Like girl, that's you. That's why you're here. I know.[00:38:00]

[00:38:02] It's going to be fine. What so what do you guys think as far as when like with divination? Do you guys think that it's like a fate situation or do you think it's more of like? This is what is probably gonna happen. If you keep doing this stuff you say you want to do.

[00:38:22] Chelle: That's almost exactly like how I explain divination.

[00:38:26] This is the path you are currently on based on your current situation and actions. And if you continue on that path with your actions, this is what's going to happen. But you have every ounce of free will to veer left at any given point and change that shit. If you don't like it, change it. But based on the path you are now doing what you're doing, this is what's going to happen.

[00:38:48] Laylla: Mine, I have a slightly different belief and I pretty much, it would explain it to clients the same way Shell just did, that the cards are telling you what's most likely going to happen [00:39:00] based on your past, based on who you are, based on the types of decisions the cards know you make.

[00:39:05] Ashley: You are

[00:39:05] Laylla: who you are.

[00:39:06] You're not really going to change your stripes. So this is how things are most likely going to go. You can change it. If I say there's danger in cars and you change the way you drive, that's You might be able to avoid that. But I do also believe that there are some things in our life that are set.

[00:39:23] They're just going to happen. There's not much you can do to avoid it. You are on this collision course, whether it's fate, whether it's the universe, whether it's, I'm not sure what it is, but I do feel that there are some things in our life that are faded that are just going to happen. Most of it, I think most of it for most of us, we have free will and we can change things.

[00:39:47] But I do believe that there are some things that are faded. It's hard to tell the difference sometimes.

[00:39:53] Ashley: I agree. I, yeah, I agree with both of you cause I feel, I always tell people when I do readings for them, I'm like, look, if [00:40:00] you dye your hair blonde tomorrow, your whole life could change.

[00:40:02] Like everything could be different from making one decision. You know what I mean? That you're just not going to, or you drive this way to work tomorrow instead of driving the way you normally drive, something could happen. But I also believe And I think sometimes people don't realize it's still after. I do really believe that everything happens for a reason and I hate to say it because people will say but oh, what about all the bad things that have happened and this and that and i'm Like i'm not saying that it should have happened or that it's okay I'm, just saying that things happen For a reason I really do believe everything happens to lead you somewhere else even when It you know, and it's nobody's fault And that's not for trauma to say it's faulting or anything like that, just saying that it's leading you to a certain point, and then when you get to that point, you get to decide how you want to handle whatever's going on, I

[00:40:56] Chelle: absolutely agree.

[00:40:58] Laylla: Yeah. I do too. And [00:41:00] it goes back to a little bit what we were talking about at the beginning of the conversation with the idea of like attracting like. Sometimes no matter how positive you are or how much good you put out in the world, bad shit is still going to happen, and that's not your fault.

[00:41:15] That's not because you didn't want it badly enough or stay positive enough. It's just because sometimes life is fucked up and the universe is sometimes a bitch and things are going to happen.

[00:41:26] Ashley: Yep.

[00:41:26] Laylla: And you can't take that honest fault and you can't say, well, if only I had done something differently, I wouldn't have gotten cancer.

[00:41:34] That's sometimes that shit happens. And so you got to try not to take on the blame, for everything, even as you do try to put out positivity and good things in the world. Sometimes like like you're saying, Ashley, things are just going to happen because that's the way you've moved through the world or the way that the world just is at that time.

[00:41:53] And. And fate happens So I guess I'm just trying to say that it's not always in your control. Not [00:42:00] everything is. Yeah. Sometimes. Yeah. No matter how much magic you have, it's going to be out of your control.

[00:42:05] Ashley: 100 percent. Yeah. And also we can't, we cannot control how other people behave.

[00:42:12] So sometimes stuff happens to you because somebody else made A poor decision, and then it happens to you because we can't control how any, we can only control ourselves. So I don't know what so and so is gonna do, and if they hurt me it's not my fault. They just did some dumb shit, like, and now we're in this situation, and now I have to figure out how to get myself out of this situation, and

[00:42:34] Laylla: That's like life.

[00:42:35] Yeah. You go to Shell, you have her grab one of those 170s from the desk, and you ask her for some advice.

[00:42:43] Ashley: Exactly! You're like, how is this gonna work now? Exactly! Oh! So, some of the most popular, Forms of divination like right now that people know [00:43:00] about the most are tarot like we talked about astrology everybody loves all the girls love astrology now i don't oh i've said it if i've said it once i've said a million times i don't get it i don't get it i can't get it i don't get astrology at all girl

[00:43:14] Chelle: i am with you i know i feel like the minute you say astrology All I think of is math and I'm like, Whoa, what?

[00:43:25] When this planets at this place, no too much.

[00:43:30] Laylla: My oldest is a witchling and she is an astrology girly. She knows all of it. And I am confused all the time. I know I'm an Aquarius.

[00:43:40] Ashley: That's about it. It's like me. I'm like, I'm a Gemini and I don't know. what that means. I like what I am now too.

[00:43:48] Chelle: I'm a Gemini too. Both of me. Both of me. When people start asking me about my risings and my this and my that, I'm like, what are you? I'm a Gemini. What are you talking about? That's all I [00:44:00] know. I know.

[00:44:01] Ashley: And so this is coming out way after, but this past weekend if anybody Is anybody likes rap music?

[00:44:09] Nicki Minaj and Megan Thee Stallion got in a big fight, right?

[00:44:12] Laylla: It's

[00:44:15] Ashley: crazy, it's crazy. So they got in this huge argument and there's diss tracks being made. And then I was on like TikTok and all these people are like, well, I could have predicted this based on Megan Thee Stallion's And I was like, what?

[00:44:30] They were like, according to Megan Thee Stallion's natal chart. She doesn't take this in this and I think they said she's a Scorpio. I don't remember but they were all just like, of course, she did this. And of course she said this because she's a bad bitch because she's like this because she's this sign and I'm like, okay, girl, like whatever.

[00:44:45] I'm just enjoying the gossip, but I don't know about all this.

[00:44:48] Laylla: There's a lot. I don't know why you're so, but yeah, if you can explain that Now, just recently on on Survivor one of the contestants What was called the [00:45:00] survivor astrologer because she is a witch and an astrologer. So you're starting to see this everywhere, not just on TikTok with the, right?

[00:45:08] With Nicki Minaj and Megan Thee Stallion, survivor, there's astrologers, they're everywhere. Who's

[00:45:13] Chelle: doing Nicki Minaj's birth chart? Cause what's her birth chart?

[00:45:18] Ashley: I'm sure one of the TikTok astrologers is on it currently, they're doing the math they're doing the mathing and they'll figure it out for us.

[00:45:27] There's also That's why I can't do astrology, because of what you just said, the mathing. I know, they're like, what's the second you were born and the longitude and girl, I don't know. I don't have no idea. I'm like, that's fine. And like, oh, God bless people who do astrology. I'm like, that's too much work.

[00:45:46] Give me a pack of cards. Give me an egg and a glass of water. Like, we'll talk. But like, don't give me math and planets and houses. I can't. It's not a science, yeah.

[00:45:57] Chelle: I'm with ya.

[00:45:58] Ashley: It's so much. [00:46:00] It's just so much. Oh, there's so much work. I'm tired. And it's so good when they get it right. Oh

[00:46:05] Laylla: my goodness. It's so good.

[00:46:07] I

[00:46:08] Chelle: know one time I

[00:46:11] Ashley: think I had some Somebody do a little bit of like my, I think it was my natal chart. Everything she said was correct. So I'm like, I know this is right. I don't know how you came to this, but you're right. So cool.

[00:46:26] Chelle: Multiplication,

[00:46:31] Ashley: charting and mapping. Oh no. There's circles. I don't, why are all these

[00:46:35] Laylla: circles in numbers?

[00:46:37] Sudirial astrology too. If you don't, you're not confused enough by, One type of astrology, there's a whole different system that you can learn.

[00:46:47] Chelle: I wish you could all take a look at my face right now, because I'm like, what?

[00:46:50] Ashley: It's, yeah, it's a lot. It's too much, and then like, I know we did an episode, we talked about astrology, and then there's different like, astrology in different like, parts of the [00:47:00] world.

[00:47:00] So there's like Vedic astrology for India, and then like, there's like, they're like, astro astrology from like ancient persia and i'm like i don't have time for that god bless them god bless and god speed but like i don't have time for it but like you know i'll let you guys do the astrology girlies and she's days and days you guys could do it

[00:47:21] Chelle: I

[00:47:21] Ashley: have seen a lot of,

[00:47:23] Chelle: I have seen a lot of TikTok.

[00:47:24] People are doing a lot of fire scrying, which I find is super cool. As long as they're safe about it. Yeah. Time of year for it. I think that is a definition that kind of fell by the wayside, between the nineties and now. You didn't really hear a lot about fire scrying and all of a sudden it is hot again and I love that.

[00:47:42] Ashley: Yeah. I like that. And I like the we've talked about before the smoke, like smoke scrying. That's in scrying and scrying. It's just, you can do scrying with just about anything you want. Like, you have your classic.

[00:47:56] Chelle: Yeah, I know. I was just going to say, I know this episode is going to come out after the fact, but [00:48:00] Layla and I just recorded our in bulk episode and talked about scrying in milk.

[00:48:05] So you can really scry in anything. Ooh, I gotta listen to

[00:48:08] Ashley: that because what? Milk? Okay. Milk? Girl.

[00:48:16] Laylla: That's true. Those are good. You can do that. People love crystals. And this is one of those things that you find it the world around depending, whether it's in water or some type of glass or, people are always looking like you said the smoke in the fire.

[00:48:31] We're always looking. Your reflection

[00:48:34] Chelle: in a lake or a pond.

[00:48:36] Laylla: Yeah, we're all trying to find that connection with the divine. That way to figure out what's going to happen next and how do I fit into that next step.

[00:48:44] Ashley: Exactly.

[00:48:45] Laylla: We all, there's so many different ways to do it. You just have to try them all, I think.

[00:48:50] I love trying different ones and seeing what fits and what works. Because that's what part of the beauty about this whole witchcraft path and with the resurgence of it right now is [00:49:00] trying these things, trying a flavor of everything. See what

[00:49:03] Chelle: works

[00:49:03] Laylla: for

[00:49:03] Chelle: you. Yes.

[00:49:04] Laylla: Do it respectfully, do it with knowledge, do it with intent and really dive into these things because there's so much out there.

[00:49:11] There's so many different ways. If tarot cards don't work for you, if they don't speak to you, try the tea leaves, try something else. And there's just. It's a very rich world of divination types out there. And there's, with TikTok and with YouTube and with podcasts like yours, there's so many different ways to find out about them.

[00:49:29] And, I didn't know people were doing astrology on stars. I guess it doesn't surprise me that people were picking like, yes, not stars in the sky, but like Nicki Minaj and stars, to figure out what's going on. But yes,

[00:49:43] Ashley: people are nosy and I'm here for it. Don't get me wrong.

[00:49:47] I'm super nosy. You know nothing of what

[00:49:51] Chelle: you speak.

[00:49:55] Ashley: I always joke like I won't tell everyone's business. I just need to personally know all of your [00:50:00] business. Like I won't tell anybody. Yeah, just for me. I'll take it to the grave. I just need to know it all. Yes. Also, some people use runes.

[00:50:10] Runes are really cool. Very confusing to me. But again, if you like runes, awesome. They're very cool. The I Ching, also confusing to me, but it's very cool. And we have psychometry where people read like objects. So these are some of the more popular ones. Then there's some pretty obscure ones that like people don't use that much anymore.

[00:50:28] Especially like, like, different forms of divination with like innards of animals. Most people don't do that. Yeah. Unless you do, unless you live in a society where that is common, it's not really that common in the Western world. At least

[00:50:41] Laylla: homesteading is getting to be pretty big. I imagine there's a lot of people that

[00:50:45] Ashley: people need to stop homesteading.

[00:50:47] Homesteading is cool, like it's very cool, but I feel like now people are just doing it and it's getting weird because Yeah, it's getting cliche and they're also mixing it with like the whole trad [00:51:00] Wife thing and now it's getting weird Yeah, you're like, oh everyone's growing their own food Yes, and you're like, everyone's just like communal.

[00:51:08] They, and they have chickens. I watch chickens too. I was like, oh, this is awesome. But now it's getting creepy. And I'm like, now you guys are ruining it. Damn it.

[00:51:16] Laylla: Now you got the trad wives and you got the I know. It's just a little creepy. Yeah, you're

[00:51:22] Ashley: like asking your like very weird cisgendered husband to go to the store I'm like now I don't I can't talk to you people anymore I'm like You're all, this is too much I'm like I

[00:51:34] Laylla: just wanted some organic carrots man I

[00:51:37] Ashley: know I just wanted to learn how to grow peppers And now you're telling me I have to like grow peppers Do my makeup for bed, Please

[00:51:45] Laylla: please Chickens I can't look I have a full face.

[00:51:51] I

[00:51:51] Ashley: know I want to go so bad I've been me and my fiancee for I'd be like, I just want to go he grew up on farm He's like, you know how much work is take [00:52:00] care goes. I was like, I don't care. They're cute as hell

[00:52:03] Laylla: My mother was the biggest hippie back in the day hippie the braids, the barefoot, the everything.

[00:52:11] She was given a baby goat. I don't know why. Hippies were weird. She was weird back in the day. But she ended up with a baby goat. And she loved that thing. Clover. And it followed her around everywhere. She raised it. It would butt her boyfriends with its little head and, it would run around and she, it was her favorite pet ever.

[00:52:32] So yeah, get a goat. They're really cute apparently.

[00:52:34] Ashley: Yeah. And they're smart as hell. But that's also the problem. They know how to run away and they can jump really high. Goats will eat your shoes though. Yeah, they will. They'll eat everything. They don't care. She

[00:52:45] Laylla: was very smart. She didn't have shoes. She was a hippie.

[00:52:47] There you go. See,

[00:52:48] Ashley: she was like, this is why I can get a goat. I won't have any problems.

[00:52:56] Laylla: I love my shoes. So no goat for me.

[00:52:58] Ashley: Your mom's a genius. [00:53:00] Yeah. I'll

[00:53:02] Laylla: tell

[00:53:02] Ashley: her. She figured it out. Yeah. Oh God. So a couple other real quick ones and we'll get to our story by it just that. So there's one called a grandmother pronounce any of these Roy I'm apologizing as usual agree, which is like a form of.

[00:53:21] Or ornithomancy, which is like watching the way the birds fly. That's a different way of divination. Yeah, I was like, okay, girl, that's fine. Oh, palmistry. I didn't mention that one. People reading people's palms. It's pretty popular. All of the Claire's, knowing by sight, knowing by smell, knowing by sound, that kind of thing.

[00:53:39] People who do. Divination through oil. That's also very popular in certain parts of the world. Divination through beans and seeds, through shells. In Africa people do, West Africa especially, do shells a lot. There's one that's called jelloscopy, which is divination through messages, through laughter.

[00:53:57] I've never Yeah, I read [00:54:00] it, but I don't know any examples of this. I have to look it up.

[00:54:03] Chelle: I've never heard of that before.

[00:54:04] Ashley: Me either. I was like, I don't know the, like how you do it. I have no idea. Everyone gets in a

[00:54:10] Laylla: circle, you lay down and you put your head on the belly of the person next to you. And then everyone starts laughing.

[00:54:16] Well, that would be so cute. Yeah, I think I did that in 4 H when I was like nine. That's adorable. I don't think it was a divination though.

[00:54:24] Ashley: No, it was just everybody being adorable.

[00:54:30] You can get messages through the waves, messages through incense smoke, specifically if you're burning messages through wine. Okay, girl, that's fine. You're like, I think I'm tired. Through turtle shells, through talked about fire scrying through obviously like your average seance through dead people, kitchen utensils Okay, urine.

[00:54:57] No, thank you through wood through [00:55:00] messages you get randomly from strangers There's like a gazillion ways to do it and obviously all over the world and then oh tea leaves and ground coffee grounds that shell mentioned before those are really popular, too but these other obscure ones, this is called rumbology, which is divining through messages through the buttocks.

[00:55:19] I don't know what kind of messages people are getting. This is what I'm saying, yeah, is it like the cellulite message or the fart? I don't know.

[00:55:30] Laylla: One of those sound like, I don't want to specialize in it. I'm not

[00:55:33] Chelle: doing a try it episode on it.

[00:55:35] Ashley: I'm

[00:55:36] Chelle: not.

[00:55:36] Ashley: You

[00:55:36] Laylla: don't know me either. Not it.

[00:55:39] Ashley: Nobody's doing that.

[00:55:40] That's too much work. I don't look at anyone's butt. I don't know them. This is awkward. We're both uncomfortable. Oh my god. That's so funny. Laughter. This is where we

[00:55:53] Chelle: end up.

[00:55:58] Ashley: Oh, okay. So, [00:56:00] okay. So now we're gonna do our story time, which has to do with divination. And which is and it's a story that I never knew, but I found this out the other day, and I'm furious, and you'll see why. Okay, so we're gonna start with the story of Medea. Do you guys know the story of Medea?

[00:56:19] Okay. Alright, chime in where you want, because I have a lot of concerns and thoughts and I'm upset. Not with Medea, actually. With everybody else. Everyone else in this story pisses me off, except Medea, actually. Sounds about right. Yeah, because they did her so dirty, but we're getting to it. So, alright, so where we're picking up in this story is, just know that there's this dude named Jason.

[00:56:42] Jason is a quote unquote hero, okay, whatever. He went and he did all this But actually, the only reason he got it all done was because of Medea. And I'll tell you about her in a minute, okay? So Jason is actually, and I didn't realize this until I started doing more research, Jason is actually the great grandson of [00:57:00] Hermes on his mom's side.

[00:57:01] Okay, so he's like a little magical, but not magical enough. So he can't really do much on the magical side. Magical by proxy. Exactly. So it's like, calm down, Jason. So his dad was like in charge of this place called Iolkis and His dad's brother then ended up taking over after the dad died when Jason's I actually this is I'm supposed to be on the throne And the brother was like get away from here Jason.

[00:57:25] And so The brother was like fine you can be on the throne, but you have to bring back this mythical golden fleece You have to go find it You have to go all the way to Colchis, which is like modern what they say is like now modern day, country of Georgia you have to go all the way to Georgia get this Golden Fleece.

[00:57:40] Now, everybody knew that Colchis was not a place, Colchis was not that, it was a magical hood, okay? You go there, you have to be careful, I'm gonna go shit, and you'll see. Why? Like, you have to be careful when you go to Colchis, because there's magic everywhere, you don't know what's about to happen. And they said the king there was mean.

[00:57:59] Okay. [00:58:00] So Jason went to Colchis. He got the fleece, but he had to go through all these trials. And the only reason he couldn't even do any of this trials where he had to use magic was because of this girl Medea.

[00:58:12] Now Medea was the daughter of the king of Colchis, who's king Aedes. So Medea was like, she saw Jason. He probably was looking really hot in all of his armor and stuff. And she's like, Oh my God, he's so cute. And he's

[00:58:27] Laylla: like,

[00:58:28] Ashley: he's like Medea, like God on

[00:58:30] Laylla: his mother's side.

[00:58:31] Ashley: Exactly. So she's like, he's really like telling her, he's like playing it up.

[00:58:35] Like, yeah, I'm one time, like Olympian, and she's like, Oh my God, you're so cute. And she was probably like, young. And she just saw this hot guy who came to town and he's like, listen, Medea, you're mad magical. Now, oh, by the way, let me tell you who Medea is related to because you guys won't even believe it.

[00:58:52] So, Medea is, her aunt is Circe. Now, we talked about Circe before. Remember Circe, that witch who turns [00:59:00] everybody into animals because she doesn't like them? Yeah, that's, that Circe. That one. Me Circe. Which means to

[00:59:07] Laylla: have, I think,

[00:59:09] Ashley: this is what I'm saying. I could have used Circe many times in my twenties because some of my exes needed to be turned to pigs, but that's fine.

[00:59:15] So it was short for another act. So it's a different, but that, so now that she's niece to Circe, that also makes her granddaughter. Of Helios, the sun, just the sun god, not even the sun god, just like the sun which is a big deal. Like, so she's way more magical than Jason and her, she was also the chief priestess.

[00:59:38] Oh, and her other auntie was Pasiphae, who was also out here. We also did episode on Pasiphae trying to have sex with a bull, but you'll listen to that one. The story's crazy. Oh, so like, Pasiphae was wild. , so Medea was also the chief priestess to Hecate. So she had a big temple, and she was in charge of doing stuff with Hecate.

[00:59:57] Which makes her a powerful lady, right? [01:00:00] Even though Medea was like kinda younger, but it's all good, bitch. But she was really magical. So, she didn't really like her brother that much, and she didn't Her dad, she thought he was really mean. So when Jason came to town, and he's looking all sexy in his armor, and then he's like, actually, I'm gonna defeat Jason.

[01:00:16] I just want to get this golden fleece and I'll take you back with me and you could be the queen of my kingdom when I become king. She's like, that sounds great. If I'm 18 years old and a hot guy comes and tells me I can be a princess or a queen, I'm probably

[01:00:30] Chelle: going

[01:00:31] Ashley: to go. Exactly. So rude. So she helps him, basically the Argonauts are Jason's peoples.

[01:00:43] They're like his posse. So the Argonauts kill her brother in this battle and then she kind of messes with the sea and her dad was on a ship in the sea and makes the sea get a little wild and then her dad's ship sinks. So they're both dead and she knows this and she she, don't [01:01:00] get me wrong, she does feel bad about that.

[01:01:02] But she also is about to be a queen. So she's like, Priorities, man. Priorities. Yes, justify the means. Yeah, and she's like, they were mean anyway, and they weren't gonna let me do anything. And like, they were actually really mean. So it's not like she was lying about that. So she's like, fine. So then she's like, Jason's like, okay, cool.

[01:01:19] I love you now. Thanks for helping me. We're gonna go get married. Yay! So they go. So they're about to leave Colchis and go to Iolkis and get back to the throne, but Cersei came by and Cersei's like, Hey, niece, just by the way, I want to let you know that I saw in all my divination stuff, remember I'm a super witch that, You're gonna hate your life.

[01:01:40] You in danger girl, she said basically. She's like, he's gonna make you change. You're gonna be different. And no matter where you go, you're never gonna be welcomed. And you're gonna end up doing something really bad to him. And Medea's like, never auntie, please. You don't even know what you're talking about.[01:02:00]

[01:02:00] She's like, auntie, that's basically what Medea said. Medea was like, auntie, I have this down. You don't understand. We're going to have the best life. I love you, but I love him. And she also like she's like, I'm sorry. I killed your brother. But at the same time, he sucked. And Cersei's like, okay, she's like, I'm not even mad at you for that.

[01:02:20] I just don't want you to go mess your life up and she's like auntie chill like I got this So she's like fine, so she leaves and they go back to iocas, which is part of greece So once they get there The uncle is on the throne and jason goes to his uncle He's like I got the golden fleas and the uncle's like I don't care and he's like what?

[01:02:41] The guy's like I don't care. I don't care what you say. I'm still not giving you the throne medea's like, okay, what the hell's going on? And then the uncle the uncle who's the king, he's like, and who's this barbarian woman queen that you brought from that witchland with you?

[01:02:56] And she's like, what? Who are you talking to? Don't talk to me like that. [01:03:00] Because in their country, nobody's talking to Medea like this. And she's pissed off now. Don't talk to me like that. But the king of Iolcas didn't care. He was talking down to her. Anyway, so Medea thinks of a plan because Jason's like, oh my god, what am I gonna do?

[01:03:14] What am I gonna do? I want to be king. She's like, I got a plan. She goes to the king and she's like, listen, you know how you think I'm like a barbarian witch? I actually am and what I could do for you is I can make you younger and then you can be kings for so long that you'll even outlive Jason.

[01:03:32] And the king is like, what? She's like, I'll do it for you. It's not a problem. She's like, I don't even really want to be queen. I'm just going along with Jason because he's my husband now or whatever. And the king's like, Oh, wow. Okay, cool. So she has a whole plan, right? So the next day they go and they're going to put out the do this plan.

[01:03:52] And Medea is like, I'm going to do this spell for you. So she's like, bring me a ram and bring me a knife. Now, [01:04:00] Madea knows magic like the back of her hand, literally. So, she gets all this stuff. She has a baby lamb. And, no, she gets an old lamb. Sorry. An old lamb brings it over. She kills the lamb. Okay? I'll spare you all the gruesome details.

[01:04:14] Kills the lamb. But then she does some, like, abracadabra. And then a baby lamb comes from the dead lamb. Oh my God. Yes. So she's like, see, I did it.

[01:04:26] She's like barbarian witch at your service. It's me. So the guy was like, that's awesome. Oh my God. She's like, and the guy's like, but do you have to like, stab me? She's like, yeah, sorry. I gotta stab you. And he's like, oh shit. So anyway, he's like, oh, but I'm going to be young. So it's going to be fine. So meanwhile, just so you know.

[01:04:47] Medea has told Jason the whole plan. He knows, but what she doesn't know is that the king's son, who's like an asshole, heard the whole plan. So he knows what's about to happen, and you'll see. So, Medea's like, [01:05:00] okay, come here. I gotta kill you real quick. So, so she, like, goes to kill him, She stabs him and then the son is like, oh, I'll help you stab him Like so she said he helps and then after the son stabs the king because the son is weird The son stabs the king then he yells guards.

[01:05:18] Oh my god, Medea stabbed my dad and they're like, what do you mean? You're gonna tell on us now. He's like, of course, I'm gonna tell on you because I want to be king So they didn't realize he was gonna double cross them But he did. So now they have to run and they have to leave. This sucks, right? Mattia's like, damn, this is wild.

[01:05:35] So now they leave and they're out on the open ocean. And Jason finds out that the king of Corinth really thinks he's cool. And Medea's like, I don't want to go to Corinth. It sounds lame. And it's another Greek place. And these Greek people are so boring. And Jason's like, no, we have to go to Corinth because they're the only ones that will take us.

[01:05:57] And, but Jason's like, but the [01:06:00] thing is, you have to like, act like a proper Greek woman now. You can't be wearing all your weird makeup and all your scarves and your jewelry.

[01:06:08] Laylla: Now

[01:06:09] Ashley: he wants to change her. Exactly. And Medea's like, I love my hoops. I'm from the streets and this is who I am. And he's like, you can't act like you're from the streets anymore.

[01:06:19] Chelle: Sounds like her auntie warned her before and she just blew her off, huh?

[01:06:23] Ashley: So that's the first thing that pops into Medea's head. She's like, no. Circe can't be right. I got, this is just something I gotta do. Like, I gotta support my husband. Okay, fine. So she does, so she changes. She starts acting like a quote unquote proper Greek woman.

[01:06:37] She starts only doing stuff Greek women do. Oh, he also wanted her to stop doing magic. He said, you can't keep doing magic because everyone's afraid of you. And she's like, I am magic, basically. How am I gonna stop? But she only does it in secret. Okay, so then now years have gone by. She has two kids. For Jason and she's living in Corinth and they're like fine, but she's not [01:07:00] really happy.

[01:07:01] She doesn't have any friends. Nobody wants to hang out with her because they think she's that weird Colchis lady who does magic and she's like, no, I don't do magic. Meanwhile, she's doing tons of magic, but she just pretends she's not so One day, Jason decides to go to a party with the King of Corinth, because the King of Corinth calls him.

[01:07:22] The King of Corinth calls him and it's like, Jason I think you're great. And Jason's like, thanks. And he's like, oh, by the way, look, that's my daughter. You want to meet her? And Jason's like, okay. So she comes over, her name's Glossy. And he's like, hey, I'm Jason. Glossy, this is Jason. Jason's like, hi.

[01:07:38] Glossy says hi, and she's being flirty, and Jason's like, okay, cool. The king of Corinth's like, I think she needs to marry a hero, and Jason's like, yeah, she should marry a hero. She's very pretty, who do you want her to marry? So subtle. So subtle. And he, and the King of Corinth's like, I want her to marry you.

[01:07:54] And Jason's like, I have, yeah, he's like, sir, hold on. [01:08:00] It's like, I have a wife and even like, I don't, I have two kids already. Like, I don't have time for this. And the King is like, listen, you have two options. You either marry my daughter or you got to go. And you can never come back. If you marry my daughter, when I die, you'll be the king.

[01:08:18] And haven't you always wanted to be a king? Jason's like, absolutely. I want to be a king. That's why I got myself into this stupid mess. He's like, great. So he goes home. Of course, his good quote unquote good Greek wife is at home, Medea's just sitting around, doing what she's supposed to do, whatever she's doing.

[01:08:37] So he goes and he's like, Medea listen to what happened. The king of Corinth told me that he wants me to marry his daughter. So Medea's listening to this story, expecting him to start saying like, isn't that ridiculous? But he doesn't say that. He's just like, and I'm gonna do it and Medea's like, what?

[01:08:57] He's like, so like it's gonna be [01:09:00] fine. He's like the thing is I'm gonna marry her and I'm gonna take the kids and then you just have to leave And she's like, and you're what? And he's like, huh. And don't worry. I'll give you she's like sir, I murdered my brother for you my dad for you I murdered a king for you and here I am without my cool necklaces and shit because you Wanted me to be like this And here I am and you're gonna leave me?

[01:09:33] And he's like, no. I'm gonna give you alimony, basically. I'll give you money. Like, I'll set you up somewhere. Like, you'll be good. Obviously she freaks out. She's upset. And Jason's like, I can't deal with you when you're like this. I gotta leave. And he leaves the house.

[01:09:50] And she's like, what the fuck is happening? So then. Yeah, so, in the story I heard, there's this cat that comes to the window and it's [01:10:00] staring at her and she's like, Cat, this is not the time. I don't know whose cat you are, but like, I really don't have time for this. And then all of a sudden the cat becomes Circe.

[01:10:08] And she's, yes, and she's like, hey girl. Told you. You never

[01:10:13] Chelle: trust a cat. It's always gonna turn into

[01:10:14] Ashley: somebody. Exactly. And it may be, it might be Circe. She's like, hey girl, and Madia's like, Circe? Shit is going down. I don't know what to do. And she's like, niece, listen to me. Told you so. Told you so.

[01:10:27] She's like, I love you, so I'm not gonna say it too hard. But I did tell you so, number one. Number two, you're magical as fuck. Why are you taking this? And she's like, damn, you're right. Yeah, she said, don't forget who you are. You're literally my niece and the granddaughter of the Sun. What are you talking about right now?

[01:10:45] And she's like, ah, that's true. She's like, so what do you want to do? You got to get, you got to get revenge girl. And she's like, ha, you're right. So, Medea comes up with the whole plan, okay? So she's like, so Cersei's like, [01:11:00] this is what you're gonna do. The first thing you're gonna do is you're gonna go to the forest and you're gonna see a plant down there.

[01:11:04] This bush. And you're gonna pick all the leaves and stuff and you're gonna bring it home. And you're gonna make a cloak out of it. It's gonna be a gift to Jason's new wife. And she's like, okay. So she does. Now, Medea's starting to see what's going on here. So she makes his cloak, she calls Jason back, Jason comes back, and he's like, Hey, and she's like, Hey, Jason, like, I thought about what you said, I'm in a better state of mind, I've composed myself.

[01:11:33] And I just wanted to let you know that like, I see where you're coming from and I think maybe this is a really good idea for us. And he's like, Oh my God, Medea, thank you so much. I'm so glad you understand. I just, I don't want to upset you, but like, this is the best thing for me because I'm selfish.

[01:11:50] He didn't say that part, but this is how I felt. He was thinking it. He's like, this is what I always wanted. And finally, I'm going to have what I [01:12:00] want because the whole world revolves around me. And she's like, Oh, Baby, okay, I get it. I love you. And she's like, now you're gonna have this beautiful, new hot wife.

[01:12:09] And this is so great. So I wanted to give you a little gift. Give it to glossy from me. And he's like, Oh my god, this is so pretty. He opens the box a little bit. He sees a little embroidered. Oh my god, so cute. So he's like, Thanks, media. Love you lots. I'll be back for the kids later.

[01:12:25] She's like, no problem. I'll have them packed up. So she goes Back to glossy because they're gonna be married like tomorrow. So he's like glossy. Guess what and glossy's like, what's up? And he's like medea got you a wedding present and glossy's like, oh my god. I'm so excited I was so worried that she'd be angry with me I don't want her to be mad at me, even though i'm stealing you from her like it's fine So he oh she opens the box and she sees this gorgeous black robe with embroidery.

[01:12:54] She's like, Oh, this is gorgeous. I've never seen anything like this in Greece. All the girls are going to be talking [01:13:00] about me and how cute I am. And he's like, absolutely. It's from Colchis. It's like original. Nobody has this around here. So Glossy puts it on and she's like, Oh my god, I look so cute.

[01:13:11] She starts screaming and Jason's like, Oh shit. She's screaming. She's on the ground writhing in pain. He's seeing that her skin is getting red and bubbling and now it's getting black. So then Outside the door the king of Corinth. He hears all the screaming so he runs in he's like what's going on in here?

[01:13:33] And he sees a gloss glossies all shriveled up and her corpse is black on the ground So he's like what happened so he grabs glossy, he's rocking with her He's hysterical then his hands start to burn and get black and his whole body starts to burn too Now Jason is like, what's happening? So he has to leave obviously because he's about to get arrested for murdering these two people So [01:14:00] he runs out and he's like I gotta go back to Medea because I know this is her fault.

[01:14:05] So he runs back And he gets to the house and he opens the door and he's like Medea Like what did you do? Like you killed Glossy and she's like, yeah, I did and what are you gonna do about it? And he's like, oh What's wrong with you? Like I can't believe you did this and she's like Jason you literally took everything from me Like and you think that's okay Like you think that I could change my whole life for you and you're just gonna treat me like shit Did you forget that?

[01:14:32] I'm the baddest bitch from cold kiss other than my aunt are you kidding me right now? so Jason's like whatever. I don't ever want to see you again. Go get the kids and he she's like go get the kids You go get the kids and he's like, what do you mean? I go get the kids She said you go get the kids.

[01:14:49] So he goes in the room and the kids are dead Medea killed the kids Now [01:15:00] Jason is losing his shit. Jason is obviously very upset And Jason's like, how could you do this? Like, what's wrong with you? And literally she's like, because I hate you more than I loved them. Like, I hate you. Like, I hate you. You ruined my whole entire life.

[01:15:18] And then she just likes that. And then in this version, I heard she steps over him and there's a crow in the window and. Madea turns into a crow also, sits next to that crow, and they fly away together. The other crow apparently being Circe. And they go back to Colchis. That's the end of that story. Now, I just wanted to say that usually like in a lot of Greek tales, all the women are like afterthoughts.

[01:15:48] They're just like characters. But Medea is like that personification of a woman's scorn. So that's why people use that story. But they also say that like in some places they look [01:16:00] at it as like, a woman who ended up taking her power back like as terrible as it was that she killed her kids and people always like she killed her kid but like also she did everything she could for this dude and he was just gonna leave her and like literally take her kids away and leave her so i'm like i judge her but i don't judge her too hard because like that's crazy

[01:16:23] Chelle: but a lot of these myths they did vilify females more than males Exactly.

[01:16:28] So I always take them with a little grain of salt knowing that the story was originally crafted in a form to quote unquote vilify the female each and every time.

[01:16:39] Ashley: That's how I feel about this because I'm like To me this story Jason is the villain. This is all Jason's fault. Like all this stuff he did just It

[01:16:50] Chelle: gets portrayed in the story.

[01:16:51] Unfortunately, exactly And that's

[01:16:54] Ashley: what pisses me off about this story[01:17:00]

[01:17:01] Laylla: It's less about, like a lot of these stories, they don't, it's not literal. It's not a, yeah, of course. And so it is very much about her taking back her power, all the things that she had given him in this case, symbolically children, but given her life, when a woman has children, you give up your body, you give up your life, you sacrifice so many things to bring, especially back then, your children became your whole life.

[01:17:24] So that was very much. symbolic of her saying, okay, this is the last tie that we have together. This life that we created together is now ended because you threw it all away for somebody else and for something else. And he never really fully wanted her for her. He never wanted her for her. He only ever wanted her for what can he get

[01:17:46] Chelle: from being with her?

[01:17:47] What can he get out of her?

[01:17:48] Laylla: Yeah. And in the end, he wanted her to give him, to give. So he could marry someone else and to give up the children, in this case, the symbol of the life that they had built together, her own [01:18:00] energy, her own power, her own magic. He wanted her to, to just be like, okay, you can take all of that away from me.

[01:18:06] Go to your younger, more princessy model, and I'll happily give you everything that we've created together. And in this particular case, She and Circe said, no, hell no, you can't have anything that we created together. And so I would rather tear it all down than see you give this work that I did to someone else.

[01:18:27] And very much like you said, taking her power back. So if you, it's hard for me, especially since maybe I'm a mom, I don't know to look at it the one way, but if you look at it symbolically, it makes a lot of sense.

[01:18:38] Ashley: Yeah, and I think it's, and I totally agree with that way of looking at it. I think that somebody, even if you look at it like, I look at it like, okay, let's say Medea is driven to like have a psychotic episode, right?

[01:18:52] Like that she, but I'm like, when you break somebody of, think of like how many wars and, Like, the transatlantic [01:19:00] slave trade and all these different things that have happened when they ethnic cleansing all over the world when they're like, I'm going to take away your culture, your religion, your language, your faith, like, I'm going to take away everything that makes you, because I want you to be this person for me into what I want

[01:19:14] Chelle: you to be.

[01:19:15] Yes,

[01:19:15] Ashley: exactly. And I it's and they literally try to break people by doing that. And I'm like, I feel like Medea, yeah. He tried to break her like it was like no you have to be this and she was like, okay I she did it all for love and like you were just saying like she did all this for love and all he wanted to Do is be king whether she was there or not.

[01:19:35] He was still gonna try to be king. So it's like you literally broke this woman to a thousand pieces and if we want to look at it Like literally, which is sad, but it's like she, she had a psychotic break, like, and she just lost it. I was like, I can't, what else am I supposed to do in this situation?

[01:19:49] Except do something that is not logical, so, and in

[01:19:51] Laylla: the stories that I've read about it, he pushed her repeatedly and repeatedly to change and to be different and ignored the signs that she [01:20:00] was having difficulty, that this wasn't, working for her.

[01:20:03] Ashley: And,

[01:20:03] Laylla: If you look at it as a tale about mental health, that's part of it too.

[01:20:07] He ignored all the troubles that she was having was not a good partner to her. And like you said, she was eventually had a psychotic break. And even then she still needs as horrific as what she did is, she is someone who was pushed to the very worst thing that she could do. Because all of the things that she needed up until that point had been ignored and had been pushed away and had been put aside by him.

[01:20:31] By the, by everyone there. She's like, she was bullied by the entire island, the entire town. Everybody hated her because she was too different. It's, it's a little bit of a morality tale about how we treat people who have been abused or people who have, do have psychological issues.

[01:20:49] We tend to. push them aside. We tend to, try to ignore it as much as we can. And then, and then it gets worse, there's a lot to that story. And [01:21:00] Medea is definitely a victim in all of it.

[01:21:02] Ashley: Yeah, well, after that deep analysis, we come to the end of our show today.

[01:21:15] This has been really fun. Thank you, Shell. Thank you, Layla. You guys.

[01:21:20] Chelle: Ashley. We were so thrilled to be able to join you today.

[01:21:24] Ashley: I know! This is, I was excited and this has been just as fun as I thought it was going to be. So, we did great. So you guys you can individually or together, you want to tell us where we can find you on the internet and about your podcast and the name and everything.

[01:21:39] Just reiterate for everyone so they know.

[01:21:41] Chelle: You can find us at back on the broomstick. com back on the broomstick on Instagram, Facebook. And if you want to shoot us an email back on the broomstick at gmail. com, we're out there and take a listen.

[01:21:54] Ashley: Yay. All right. Please do. It's a really fun podcast.

[01:21:58] Everybody listens to back on the [01:22:00] broomstick. Okay. So everybody, thank you all for coming for another week. And this is time with the divine. We're on Instagram, Facebook threads. Tick tock. Yeah, we are on YouTube. If you really enjoyed this show, feel free to pause or the show's about to end. So just do it after.

[01:22:20] Give me a five star rating if you really like it or give me whatever rating you think I deserve. Just say it with your chest and you can find us on any of your podcast platforms. If you have any questions or comments, feel free to email me at dine with the divine pod at gmail. com. And if you want to follow me, Ashley, I'm Sankofa HS.

[01:22:37] That's S A N K O. FAHS on Threads and Instagram and then Sankofa Healing Sanctuary on Facebook. Thank you so much everybody, and I'll see you next week, Bob. Bye.

[01:22:52] ​ [01:23:00]