Folk Music and Songs for Ritual with Saro

Untitled project from SquadCast

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[00:00:00] ashley---she-her-_1_03-20-2024_180957: Hello everyone and welcome to Dine with the Divine. My name is Ashley and as always today we'll be talking about the magical, the mystical, and everything in between. On today's episode we're gonna chit chat a little bit about some polyphonic sounds and music and we may end up talking a little bit about mermaids but we'll see where the wind takes us. Okay, so I hope everyone's having a fantastic week and if not I hope it gets better really soon. Bye! So today we have a fantastic guest, something a little, to me, a little different than somebody who I have seen online and I really like her work. So we have Saro,

[00:00:47] sarah Lynch Thomason is a song leader, documentarian, folklorist, and illustrator from Western North Carolina. She loves to use traditional and contemporary songs to connect [00:01:00] people to historical practices, struggles, and ritual. She currently teaches a year long course called Singing the Wheel of the Year, and plenty of really interesting courses that she teaches online and in person. Sarah, how are you today? Oh,

[00:01:17] squadcaster-bha4_1_03-20-2024_180955: doing good. It's a really it's a beautiful day here. I live in western North Carolina and the sun has been out and so many different blossoms are coming out right now and it's making me really happy.

[00:01:30] ashley---she-her-_1_03-20-2024_180957: that's awesome. Western North Carolina, is that towards, so I'm terrible with the geography of North Carolina but I know one part of it's mountainous. Is that kind of towards the mountainous part?

[00:01:41] squadcaster-bha4_1_03-20-2024_180955: That is exactly where I am. Yes. I'm in the western region with all the mountains and this area. I live in Asheville

[00:01:50] ashley---she-her-_1_03-20-2024_180957: Nashville, it's supposed to be really nice there.

[00:01:52] squadcaster-bha4_1_03-20-2024_180955: it's, yeah, it's it's got a lot of arts and culture going on. And we're here on traditional Cherokee land. So [00:02:00] actually the traditional name of Asheville is called Togiyasti, which means the place where they raced, because here there are two rivers that meet at a confluence. Those the French Broad and the Swannanoa.

[00:02:11] And it was a place where Cherokee folks would get together for gaming and to make agreements. And so it was the place where they raced, Togiyasdi.

[00:02:21] ashley---she-her-_1_03-20-2024_180957: Okay, already teaching us some history. I'm loving that. You talk about doing traditional, working with traditional folk music and contemporary music. And you talk about how this connects to historical practices and rituals. How did you even get into all of this?

[00:02:39] Were you always a singer or did you always just love history? For you.

[00:02:45] squadcaster-bha4_1_03-20-2024_180955: Yeah, I was raised by two parents who I think of as storytellers and history minded in different ways. My mom is very much a expressive kind of storyteller and has a great sense of humor. And then my dad is a historic [00:03:00] preservationist. And so he does a lot of work around preserving anything from, Battle sites to historic buildings.

[00:03:05] And so I grew up with family who and both of them are just, are really into understanding human culture and how humans work and interested in all sides of history. So that was really inspiring to me growing up. And at a certain point that started to kind of intertwine with my passion for singing and my passion for song and seeing the ways that song itself could could inform us and like connect us in a really visceral way to the past and to the ways that people worshipped or were politically engaged or survived, you know, in the past.

[00:03:42] And I came to really see songs as these, like, incredible sort of access points for us to viscerally kind of feel in our bodies and understand people in the past.

[00:03:56] ashley---she-her-_1_03-20-2024_180957: That's, That's, fascinating. , it [00:04:00] makes, it makes so much sense. I remember like when I was a young person and I was in school and I was talking a lot about how before, at least the way they teach us was before like classical music, there wasn't a lot of music like for pleasure, but I don't know if that's just a, you're like a Western Eurocentric kind of vision of music.

[00:04:25] But I was always thinking to myself, but drums and singing and music has been going on forever. So that could not be true. I was just like, I was like, that must be wrong. Because if. People in the ancient world, Roman classical periods and the Egyptian world, like they were playing music to have fun.

[00:04:48] Everybody wasn't suffering all the time. At some points they must've been having a good time. And again, I'm not like, I'm not like you. I'm not like a music. [00:05:00] historian or anything. But I also think that like the, way the, especially in societies that had more oral histories, singing was probably another way of teaching people what had happened. You know what I mean?

[00:05:14] squadcaster-bha4_1_03-20-2024_180955: Absolutely.

[00:05:16] ashley---she-her-_1_03-20-2024_180957: Yeah. yeah.

[00:05:19] squadcaster-bha4_1_03-20-2024_180955: I mean, I think folks have always, always been making music function and for survival and then also for pleasure. Like it's been all of those things, you know, even if we go, if we go back to even when humans were prelingual before we had even developed language there's a, a type of.

[00:05:39] I, you know, we could call it a type of music making, but it also has a function. It's called hollering. There's probably other ways we could call it. Right. But

[00:05:47] but this, you know, just the variety of ways that we would learn to call to each other. With different tones and different successions of like pitches and ways we would call to animals as well, like herd [00:06:00] animals or animals we were hunting with like dogs and that, you know, that's musical, like right there.

[00:06:05] And that's even before we had words to speak to each other. Right. So I think music is a really, is deeply, deeply embedded in us. And to your point about preserving history, right? Like so many cultures, we are in an age where the written word. Really rains and is a very popular a popular thing and has been for several 100 years as this way to sort of codify agreements and create reality.

[00:06:31] But for so much of our history, our communication, our promises to each other has been all oral,

[00:06:38] our preservation of incredibly long. You know, narratives has, has all been oral. So that's something I really love about studying a lot of these traditional songs is that of course they, like, they have these forms of knowledge and learning embedded in them.

[00:06:53] And some of them are telling stories that go back not just hundreds of years, but over a thousand years. [00:07:00] And you know, by some theories, at least several thousand years some of these like story songs. That I study that come from Europe particularly England, Ireland, Scotland, some of these are stories that we think go back to even as far as Indo European folktales, right, that eventually made their way into songs.

[00:07:17] So, in some cases, they might be thousands and thousands of years old.

[00:07:22] ashley---she-her-_1_03-20-2024_180957: So it's so amazing through of course storytelling It's amazing that so many stories are kept through songs and so many like So many, there's so many things we know just because of the song and so many folk tales are literally songs and in songs. It's just, it's fast. And I think we don't even remember it.

[00:07:47] And then when we talk about and you can tell me if this is true, but the way I even think of like folk music, right? Is that it was mostly storytelling. It's not really, folk music isn't, of course it's. [00:08:00] There's so many different types, right? There's ways, there's folk music that people did for working or working on this, on a boat or which I, and things I learned from you, which is really interesting, protesting songs work songs that sometimes ended up as protesting songs, which I didn't even think of, but all of these, folk music is literally a way of people expressing themselves by telling the story of what, like I said, had happened or what was going on. And I think now, and it just, and again, it just might be me. It's people like you understand it. I don't. I'm a simpleton. we listen to folk music and we're just like, Oh, it's just country music or, and I think in the United States people identify folk music with country a lot of the time.

[00:08:47] Or it's just traditional music, but people don't always see like the significance more than it's keeping like the. Culture alive. It's actually telling the story, which is to me, just [00:09:00] fascinating. That's why I just want to say that because I love that fact.

[00:09:03] squadcaster-bha4_1_03-20-2024_180955: Yeah. Yeah. I think there are ways that a lot of, that traditional music is often viewed. And I guess that when I'm, I'm, when I say traditional music, I'm thinking kind of more in my area of, Of expertise around traditional music and especially oral like singing

[00:09:22] from England, Ireland, Scotland other traditions that were brought over from Western Europe by like colonizing peoples here.

[00:09:29] I think they are often seen as less evolved, um, by people who are, you know, Raised in more classical music sort of environments, you know, because a lot of times attention to pitch is not as important and attention to rhythm, like being really tight on rhythm isn't always important. It really depends on, you know, it's, this is people who are finding ways to entertain each other and educate each other and pass the time in rural spaces for like hundreds of years in this country.

[00:09:58] And, you know, [00:10:00] there weren't a lot of rules to go by. It was more just like what you were trying to get done, right? Were you trying to get work done? In the field, were you trying to entertain a kid who was being fussy?

[00:10:09] Were you trying to play a dance? You know, so if you are, then like, yeah, maybe rhythm matters more, but it's more about what needs attention in the moment and how the song can attend to that.

[00:10:19] And so that's really different than performing in a particular setting and performing by certain standards for an audience.

[00:10:27] So, so many things changed when we started to have, first off the radio becoming really popular in the early 20th century in like most households. in the country getting radios and this, you know, this mass form of communication and then our distribution of, yeah, distribution of entertainment.

[00:10:46] And then also recording technology coming to the fore in like the twenties and thirties. And that really changed and standardized a lot of like what music was supposed to sound like for the public, how music was supposed to be engaged with and [00:11:00] consumed. I mean, even, even just used to use that word consumed, right.

[00:11:03] It's like really different than. How people were engaging with it to a certain degree in the past. So a lot of it's become standardized, but I love, love, love digging into old recordings from people who grew up in spaces where like they weren't list that, you know, there weren't radios to listen to and they were just singing for each other.

[00:11:21] And the, the emotion that you can hear in the songs and the the way of engaging with the songs is really different and something really really precious to me. Yeah.

[00:11:33] ashley---she-her-_1_03-20-2024_180957: So when you're talking about that, I started thinking about, and I think I've mentioned this on here before the Oh Brother Where Art Thou, the soundtrack which I really enjoy. There's a song on there called Oh Death,

[00:11:47] and do you, okay, do you know that this

[00:11:49] squadcaster-bha4_1_03-20-2024_180955: Ralph Stanley. Mm hmm.

[00:11:51] ashley---she-her-_1_03-20-2024_180957: Okay. Yes. Anybody listen to it.

[00:11:53] Just anybody listening here, please go find it. If you hear the guy who sings it on the soundtrack, singing this [00:12:00] song nobody listen to it. Nobody who just listens to regular pop music on the radio is going to say this guy is a good singer. They're, they would be like, this song is terrible.

[00:12:12] Unless you like, but when you really listen to it and you listen to the emotion of this guy, and also if you've seen the movie and like about the movie, it's so powerful. Cause this guy is this, he's really singing this song. He's really saying something when you really listen to the words, he's really it's coming from his heart and it reminds me a lot of your, I know you're like you were saying your area that you know a lot about is, the British Isles. It reminds me a lot of Keening. So the song is called Oh, death,

[00:12:47] And then. For anybody who doesn't know Keening was a sort of like a wailing kind of, but it's like a singing, but it's very high pitch and it was usually done when somebody [00:13:00] had died. And it was usually something done in the in Ireland and Scotland, but I did also, there were certain parts of that they did it to, but it wasn't that many parts, a couple parts. But it's very interesting. And the way the guy is singing, he's. Got a lower tone of voice and he's not on, it's not on tempo at all. But it's that same kind of wailing it's, and you can't help it. Listen to this song and really feel something. And if anybody were to listen to that song, like I said, they would be like, oh, this isn't good.

[00:13:30] And if people, I

[00:13:38] squadcaster-bha4_1_03-20-2024_180955: fans saying like, what are you talking about? That's interesting. I understand what you're saying though.

[00:13:44] ashley---she-her-_1_03-20-2024_180957: think it's good because I like, the emotion behind him and what he's saying and the way he's singing is it's really powerful. But, somebody who listens to Olivia Rodrigo and Taylor Swift would be like, this is not good, so but if you're

[00:13:59] [00:14:00] really into the meaning

[00:14:01] squadcaster-bha4_1_03-20-2024_180955: Oh, I just said totally. Yeah, I understand.

[00:14:03] ashley---she-her-_1_03-20-2024_180957: Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. So if you really listen to that meaning though, you'll really love it. And yes, Ralph Stanley, it's very cool. But yeah, and yes, exactly what you're saying. Also, I think about to like comparative somebody. And it also shows you the I hope this doesn't sound wrong, but it shows you the almost the economic class of the people who are listening to this music and playing this music. Not saying that people from lower socioeconomic classes at that time couldn't play really good classical music, but Like you were saying these people were playing music for kind of different reasons to entertain each other for a fussy baby like to just have a good time because they were bored in the middle of the night so they didn't worry so much about pitch and maybe rhythm if they were dancing, but like it was more fun. It was just like, yeah, let's like have a good [00:15:00] time and all tell a story. I think, and those stories and that kind of music, I think is so important for people to share. Cause like we all know the history when it comes to the government officials and Kings and Queens, but the history of these people who are just regular ass people, I think is so important.

[00:15:18] I think it's really important that we. Learn it. And I'm really happy that we have people like you who are carrying on those traditions and continuing to tell us about these stories.

[00:15:27] squadcaster-bha4_1_03-20-2024_180955: Yeah. Yeah. I think, yeah, if we think about that singing by Ralph Stanley of O Death and O Brother write that one. Yeah. That film was so deeply. influential in creating a revival of a lot of forms of, or a resurgence sort of in, in excitement for traditional forms of music in the U. S.

[00:15:47] Stanley's form of singing, I think really did capture a lot of people because he is, he's singing without rhythm. He's singing with a lot of ornamentation, a lot of flourish, and he's using his voice in ways that. [00:16:00] We would be taught we would be taught in a formal context, not to use our voices today.

[00:16:05] And of course, there are ways that singers do need to protect their voices for long term care, but there is a lot that's really deeply expressive and very accessible. And I think part of a lot of innate expression for people who are quote untrained and a lot of folk cultures. So you can hear. So I'll give a little snippet of something similar to how, what Stanley did.

[00:16:28] That is from a singer named Lee Monroe Presnel, who lived in Western North Carolina for a lot of his life. His singing style is really similar to what you hear in Oh Death. So, He might do a line like I went to see my Molly, oh, in her bloom of youth. So, you can hear a lot of ornamentation, like, a lot of play with A lot of play with it would also be technically be called melisma, like, so changing the note while we're kind of mid [00:17:00] vowel, or I could give another example.

[00:17:02] It's like guide me. Oh, thou great Jehovah.

[00:17:10] Right. So like a ton of ornamentation there. And all of, all of that play across the, across the vowels. So you're hearing that you're also hearing like a very, would be considered very nasal tone. So like I'm singing up into the resonance of my nasal cavity more as opposed to further down in my chest or in my mouth. You're also hearing vocal breaks too. You're hearing me emphasizing with that line from Lima Neuropresnel, you're hearing this little, like. Vocal flip that happens when we move between our chest voice and our head voice and formally we get trained to not do that, but that vocal flip is actually an artistic choice in folk cultures all around the world when people sing and it's really a motive like it reminds us.

[00:17:54] You're just talking about Keening. It actually reminds us of. Of sorrow. Cause when [00:18:00] does that, when do we, when does our voice break in our everyday lives, right? When we're crying often. And so it can be a really emotive thing and you'll hear it artistically used in country and bluegrass as well.

[00:18:10] So I think people do often are attracted to these forms of singing.

[00:18:13] If they, even if they sound like so different than the kind of smooth stuff they're hearing on the radio, because it has so much emotion in it. And there is, and kind of to your point of like how these stories preserve. Some important histories and perspectives. Something that I think is really beautiful about these song traditions is that we have the oral tradition of singing the songs, but there is also the oral tradition of talking about the songs and their meaning.

[00:18:40] So, people can sit around and, sing the same ballad. They can sing the same story and say there's a story where a man goes off and his wife, while he's gone I'm talking about a ballad called it's often called Matthew Groves or Matty Groves. So this, this Lord goes off, his wife chooses to sleep with [00:19:00] another man.

[00:19:00] Maddie Groves and the Lord comes back and finds out what has happened and ends up murdering both through a fight murdering Maddie Groves and then murdering his wife. So really tragic story. And People have been singing it for hundreds of years and today we might listen to that story and say like, okay, well, the Lord, the Lord is the bad guy.

[00:19:22] You know, this guy's terrible,

[00:19:24] but it's interesting when we look at oral histories of people who sung these songs, say, like 50 years ago, even they often take the side of the Lord. Not to say like, not even necessarily advocating that he kill anyone, but to say like, that is where their empathy lies is like with this man who has been cheated on.

[00:19:43] And so there's, there's this cool thing happening where we can be sharing the same story over long periods of time, but we also kind of know from different, different studies and conversations with, with different ballad singers and singers that folks also would take the time to like, [00:20:00] talk about the song with each other and talk about what it meant.

[00:20:03] And they're different interpretations and kind of tease out different meanings and morals and ethics for themselves from, from these stories. And I, I think that's a really important thing too.

[00:20:14] ashley---she-her-_1_03-20-2024_180957: So that makes me think of another time on this podcast. We spoke actually I think two times because I'm obsessed. We talked about really briefly murder ballads which I was like,

[00:20:29] what? So somebody told me what a murder ballad is. I was like, that's wild. And. I remember I went on I think like on Osu we talked about this with our friend Victoria, and she was talking about how you can find a lot of these recordings on the Library of Congress for free to listen to.

[00:20:45] So I was, like, listening to some of them you're talking about the morals and ethics, because there are these songs, and in some of this song I don't know. I can't think of one off the top of my head, but there will be a song. I'll be like, yeah, so this girl met this like shady dude, [00:21:00] and the dude continued to be shady and everyone's Hey, this dude shady. And then she went off with him and then she died.

[00:21:07] So Back then it was like, see this is a warning, don't go off with some shady dude because you might die. And in that case it seems back then it was like usually like a warning for like young women to beware of these like dudes, but

[00:21:22] it also seemed like a little victim blamey.

[00:21:25] It was like she was, she shouldn't have, she should have figured it out. But now we look at it and we'd be like, damn, that dude was so shady. We need to be aware of these shady dudes and make sure dudes are less shady. So I see exactly what you're saying. I was just thinking, I was like, yeah, because Now the perspective has changed a little bit. If you listen to that

[00:21:41] song, you're like, wow, this is just really sad. And wow, this is so terrible that this happened to this young person. But back then they were using it to warn people don't do this. This is a terrible idea. So yeah, it's funny how things can change. It's the same song, but now because. the way we look at as are different as a society. The [00:22:00] meaning of the song even changes a little bit. So that's really cool. That makes so much sense to me what you're talking about. Yes.

[00:22:06] squadcaster-bha4_1_03-20-2024_180955: That's a really good, that's a really good example. Like we continue, many of us continue to sing these murder ballads, which have been around for hundreds of years. There are a lot that were written in this country kind of in the 1800s. And then we have some older ones from England that are like 16, 1700s too, that like continue to have currency.

[00:22:27] And yeah, it's, people do think that a lot of times it was for a kind of social control, right? To say like, yeah, women be really. And warning, right? Like, from a place of care, too, to say, like, hey, women, be careful who you spend time with. But also, yeah, as a way of saying, like, women who wander off and, like, leave the community and yeah, make the wrong choice are going to fall victim, and it really is on them, because boys will be boys, that kind of thing.

[00:22:51] Right, but today Those songs are often framed, framed differently for sure. And they're, those kinds of songs [00:23:00] too, as, you know, they're, the, the language in these songs and the moralizing of these songs changes over time, where like, the, the more modern we get with the songs, so 1900s, 1800s, a lot of times there's some kind of moralizing statement in the song that says like, you know, maybe at the end of the song it says like, now listen, you young girls, or, you know, whatever.

[00:23:20] Be careful what choices you make, or you'll end up like so and so, right? But the older story songs that go back across the water quite often don't don't have those moralizing statements as much, and are kind of just these third person perspective almost a kind of god like Sort of perspective of telling us so so and so did such and such and then so and so reacted in another way and we don't really have we don't get to be in the emotional world of the characters.

[00:23:49] We are just watching them play out a drama and something I love about that is that actually makes us much more active listeners and more active participants [00:24:00] because then that creates the debates, right? That

[00:24:02] Me leave the song thinking like, So like maybe empathizing with a different character than somebody else would.

[00:24:10] And Me logic ing out, like, why did the character do that? Here's why I think that happened, right? And so it makes us kind of, it forces us to be interpreters in a really active way that is different than modern songwriting that tends to be, at least popular, modern popular songwriting that tends to let us reel deeply into the emotional world of the Of the narrator, of the songwriter.

[00:24:37] They're telling us exactly how they feel. So it's a really different form of engagement that I think yeah Begs us to be, begs us to be a part of the song in a different way.

[00:24:46] ashley---she-her-_1_03-20-2024_180957: Yes. Very interesting. So we're gonna talk really quick about our dish of the week and then we're gonna go on to our story time slash we'll see where things go. So since [00:25:00] We're here talking about songs. Stay with me. I know you're going to be like this. People are going to be like, this has no connection, but it does to me. So we're talking about

[00:25:09] songs. We're talking about history and a lot of the folk tales and and history that sorrow would pay attention to our people who arrived over from Scotland, England. Wales, Ireland. So I got to thinking, I was like, what? And the kind of music we're talking about. And I ended up listening, I ended up doing a lot of research and listening to a lot of sea shanties because I love a sea shanty.

[00:25:38] I don't know why I just think they're the funnest songs.

[00:25:41] squadcaster-bha4_1_03-20-2024_180955: They're catchy. Yeah.

[00:25:42] ashley---she-her-_1_03-20-2024_180957: You're so

[00:25:42] squadcaster-bha4_1_03-20-2024_180955: of fun.

[00:25:44] ashley---she-her-_1_03-20-2024_180957: I linked one. So in the show notes, I put one it's called Spanish ladies, I think it's called.

[00:25:49] I really liked it. So I linked it in the show notes. And everybody if you're on TikTok, like me too much, you'll hear yo ho. That's my other. [00:26:00] I love watching like those North Sea videos on TikTok.

[00:26:06] And they're so scary. But then the background is just like yo ho. And like now, like everybody at my job, we watch these videos when we're bored and that's our song. We'll just walk past each other and start seeing you. Oh, so I started thinking about all these things and I was like, you know what? I have a question.

[00:26:24] What did people eat on this long ass journey when they were traveling to the quote new world? And so I was like, I'm gonna look it up. So some of the things people are eating were pretty standard. People were having food that they could preserve, right? Because this would be like a month long trip or more.

[00:26:44] This is a long ass trip to cross the Atlantic. And then You know, people were going all over the world on the ship, so they had to use stuff that they could preserve. So they had salted beef, and pork, and fish, so salted beef probably like jerkies cheese. piece. I don't [00:27:00] know what that is, but that's okay. Butter and biscuits were really, and I think they weren't like biscuits, like Popeye's biscuits. I think they were a little harder, like biscuits. But butter and cheese was a new one. And then, oh, they also would have some, they'd have bacon, various types of rice, beans, chickpeas, which I was like, huh, chickpeas.

[00:27:20] Okay. Shellfish. Or, and they would put all these things in oil and vinegar, which made a lot of sense. They also would make lots of stops to get fresh fruits or vegetables so that they wouldn't get scurvy. Now, scurvy is that it's like your whole skin, it looks sallow, like you're not well when you have scurvy. Scurvy, it's because you need like vitamin C and stuff from citrus. They also would eat, on an English ship in the 16th century, they found a menu and it depended on the day what you would eat. So on Wednesdays, Fridays, and Saturdays, they would have fish, and on Sundays, Tuesdays, and Thursdays, They would have flesh so like meat and then on [00:28:00] Monday you would have bacon. So that's nice.

[00:28:02] You had a little fun menu and on any given day any of the ship hands and the people would be privy to Biscuits some cheese butter and a gallon of beer. Okay. I guess it's easier to carry beer than fresh water but like also I'm not trying to drink beer every day on this ship.

[00:28:24] It's hot, probably. Here's a little ocean. Then the sailors would get in between meals, the sailors would get some dried cod, and on bacon day, they would get a pound of bacon. That seems like a lot. Or two pounds of salted beef. Damn. Okay. So that's this seems like a lot of meat to eat, but okay. You're working really hard. You're a deckhand. So it's rough. And then sometimes there would be some cooking that would happen. They'd have these little brick fire boxes and they could cook some things like some stews. You've probably seen a stew or [00:29:00] two on think of your favorite old timey show, probably a very like. bland stew. They would make it with some broth, white broth, they said. They would add some rosemary. They would use mutton, prunes, parsley. And radishes. People love these radishes. Oh, and sometimes they would put raisins in it. It doesn't sound that good, but okay. So that's what you would eat if you were on one of these ships, everybody, just so you know. Oh, they put a little ale in it and also a little, some plums. They really like plums, anyway, so that's our dish of the week. That's some things you would eat if you were on a ship back then and you were traveling. Doesn't sound that great, but you don't have a lot of options. You're going to a new life. You better just suck it up.

[00:29:43] USB PnP Audio Device: Hey, it's me again. I hope you're enjoying this episode. I just wanted to remind you that if you can't get enough, Of me and the episode, there is an option to hear more. Don't forget about our diners club membership. So if you want to come in [00:30:00] and you want to join the Diner's club, you're more than welcome. We have three different levels.

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[00:31:07] ashley---she-her-_1_03-20-2024_180957: Okay, so next we're gonna talk, we're gonna talk a little bit about this really cool class that Sorrow is teaching.

[00:31:19] And we're gonna talk a little bit about the singing that she does in it called Your Wheel of the Year. And we're Class. So how did you come up? Not come up with, how did you organize this? And I didn't even realize, sorry, I'm like talking over you when I'm, you didn't start talking yet. But I didn't realize that there were like songs that went with the different pagan holidays.

[00:31:41] So how did this all happen? Cause this is very cool.

[00:31:47] squadcaster-bha4_1_03-20-2024_180955: So I'm teaching a year long course right now called singing the wheel of the year. And this is a way of integrating with folk traditions and the [00:32:00] histories and newer traditions to behind the different neo pagan holidays. So when I say that I'm talking about the solstices and equinoxes, and then the four Celtic holidays that are.

[00:32:11] Known, they, there's different ways to pronounce these, right? But we have Samhain, which is Halloween. We have Imbolc or Imbolc and in February, we have Baltania or Beltane in May. And we have Luna Lunasa as well. So my focus, right, has always been around song. And so I wanted to create a course where folks could.

[00:32:35] Get really into ceremony and ritual with a song focus for each of these holidays, especially people who have been wanting more community around the holidays or just want to learn more about the holidays or already have communities where they want to bring. more song into the mix. I was raised Unitarian Universalist which is a, a liberal faith tradition that has eight principles, but within [00:33:00] Unitarian Universalism, you can practice other faiths as well.

[00:33:04] And I definitely was really influenced growing up by a local, a chapter within our church called CUPS which is like a chapter of Unitarian Universalist Pagans. And so they would come to our youth group and lead us in ritual sometimes. And that early exposure to ritual was really powerful to me.

[00:33:22] And we learned some songs along the way too. I remember in particular, we learned a song that's very much a standard and like neo pagan communities now that is called spirit of the fire. And it goes something like spirit of the fire come to us. We will kindle the fire, right? That's that's the opening line and just feeling so energized by that experience.

[00:33:45] And so as In the last few years, I've really wanted to create more of those experiences for other people, but using a repertoire, sort of refreshing the repertoire of pagan chant. So for me, [00:34:00] this looks like both studying traditional songs that either are historically part of these holidays or thematically really tie into what's going on in these holidays and to create new songs inspired by tradition.

[00:34:14] So What I do with each of our classes is that we have a singing session where we learn three or four songs for, for the particular holiday. And then the next session, we have a ritual session where we put some of those songs into ritual together. And I have an online cohort. So there's ways we do ritual together online.

[00:34:33] And then I have a, an in person cohort that I teach here in Asheville. But you know, song, you know, as we've been talking about, right. It's like this. Really powerful way of accessing the past. And for some people, it might be an ancestral kind of access, or it might be a just like a spiritual access of like, yeah, I really feel this.

[00:34:54] I believe this. And like, here's, here's this source to. to really feel this in my [00:35:00] body. So if you don't mind, I could, I could sing a little sample of what, what I've got going on.

[00:35:06] ashley---she-her-_1_03-20-2024_180957: 100%, I'd love to hear it. I think everyone would love to hear it.

[00:35:10] squadcaster-bha4_1_03-20-2024_180955: So we literally yesterday, as of recording this was the spring equinox, right? It was the vernal equinox and in the neo pagan calendar, it was just, you know, called the wheel of the year. This holiday is also called or Aostra for a goddess who actually we are told historically was actually worshipped in April, not in March, but her name got attached to this particular day.

[00:35:34] So she's also venerated on this day. But this is certainly like a time of year for people in the Northern Hemisphere generally, where you would be breaking ground and you would be, you know, you would planting all your seeds and putting enormous amounts of emotion and labor into starting to sow the fields and calves are being born lambs are being born, and there is so much, like, hope that these beings are going to survive [00:36:00] and a lot of precariousness too.

[00:36:01] These efforts to pay off in order to live, right? In order to survive the next winter. So I adapted a song that comes from Anglo Saxon traditions. It comes from a ritual called the Akrabot. And Akrabot means field blessing or field remedy. And this is a really long, very elaborate ritual that would have taken days to prepare for and in of itself, just executing the ritual, would have taken a day or two at least.

[00:36:31] And it's a ritual for a field that has gone fallow. So it's a ritual for bringing bringing a field back to life again. And there are so many different beautiful, beautiful aspects to this ritual. And this ritual comes to us in about, it's recorded in the 11th century, around about there. And Maybe it's the 12th.

[00:36:52] But in any case, it's very much in a Christianized framework. And there are moments that [00:37:00] are very animist, like very much addressing the field, very much addressing the earth as its own cogn, cognizant entity.

[00:37:10] And yeah, saying to the field, like, may you grow, may you grow up. And there are, the field is addressed as the mother of men.

[00:37:17] And, As as the matron and so I adapted that into a kind of benediction, a song that can be used as a chant because it's kind of short. So I'm going to sing it for you now and I'll just tell you a little vocab first. So you'll hear at the beginning, erka erka, the English Saxons love to roll their R's.

[00:37:38] So I'm doing that. And people argue over what erka means, but this is part of the invocation in, in the ritual. Erika may just mean like, may you break ground, may you increase, right? So kind of speaking to the field and like, may you grow, it also might be a reference to a deity. It might be a way of like addressing and saying Hey, you, Erika , like the [00:38:00] field, the mother.

[00:38:01] And then we have, then we have the term aor, which means earth, mother, earth, and mother. So a and then modor is mother and the rest is in modern English. So. All, all phrases, all kinds of concepts taken from the Acrobot. So I'm going to bring in my Shruti box, which is a, an instrument, a harmonium from India that, but to the best of my knowledge was developed in India in the 19th century.

[00:38:29] And it's going to play some tones underneath my voice for this. The

[00:38:59] [00:39:00] prayer.

[00:39:04] For grains in gravestones Shielded from evil, bright blooming are ye All health to them, O Lord, the matrons

[00:39:38] So this past past few weeks, we've been doing ritual that involves that song. And so for us, that has looked like singing the song over and over while blessing soil together. So folks brought soil from places they wanted to bless or soil that could go to a place they wanted to bless. And we took parts of the Acro [00:40:00] boat that are all about heaping All the known herbs and the twigs of the trees onto the fallow land onto sods from the fallow land and blessing it with honey and with sacred water.

[00:40:12] So we incorporated parts of that ritual and we're blessing our own soil with plants that we had brought. And we're singing the song over and over again.

[00:40:24] ashley---she-her-_1_03-20-2024_180957: Wow, that was beautiful. So thank you first of all that's so neat so that Like you said using that as a chant. I think first of all, it's i'm not gonna use the right words, but it's Got like a melody to it. So it's easy to I could I can see people doing that over and over again That's easy because it's like pretty It's not just saying the same word over and over again.

[00:40:52] It's like beautiful and Yeah, like seeing that's like it's meditative to sing that over and really bring that [00:41:00] energy in. So that's really neat.

[00:41:04] So go ahead.

[00:41:07] squadcaster-bha4_1_03-20-2024_180955: Oh, just that I've, I've been getting, I've spent a lot of my life studying these story songs, right? These ballads that I mentioned earlier, and I love, I love them so much and we'll always love them and also have, and I think they bring their own kind of meditative state for the singer and for the listener.

[00:41:31] They really take us on this journey, but I have been a lot more interested in the last year or so in chant and in incorporating English language chant into my life and promoting it in my life. In my work, because I think, you know, for, for folks who grow up with like English as a, as a first language, there aren't a lot of outlets for, for chant in the language that's familiar to [00:42:00] them in our culture.

[00:42:01] Some of us might've encountered like Gregorian chant, right. Which is in Latin or chant that comes from Kirtan traditions. So like sacred Vedic traditions. But. We don't get a lot of opportunities to chant together and like kind of get into that pulse and that rhythm and that meditative trance space in a language where we can kind of dissect and make our own meaning out of the, out of the words more easily and feel a little more like ownership and interpretation of the words.

[00:42:31] And that also that kind of having that kind of familiarity also allows us to sink in and be more present. Right. So I've, I've been creating songs like this for chant. Right. In a focused way for a while and have also in addition to the course I'm teaching have started these events called singing for catharsis and catharsis is just a fun word that means, you know, release or euphoria, like good feelings.

[00:42:57] Right? And in these spaces, we really actually [00:43:00] focus on chanting for long periods of time. What, what I think in our culture would be considered long periods of time. So, you know, 30 minutes, 45 minutes singing the same song over and over and. seeing how it makes us feel. And it's, it's an experiment in a lot of ways.

[00:43:18] Because it's a new, it's a new thing for a lot of us and some songs feel we get in the flow and we feel like we're there for, and it feels easy, right? It feels easy to sing that song for 45 minutes. And, and then there's other times where, Oh, this song felt a lot more like labor. Why did it feel like labor?

[00:43:36] So there's a lot that we're kind of figuring out as we go. I but it, but it always comes out feeling relaxing and revel, revelatory to me. And I think to a lot of other folks to have that kind of access to song that's different than, than what we normally get to do. Yeah. Melisma

[00:43:58] ashley---she-her-_1_03-20-2024_180957: absolutely [00:44:00] beautiful. It Okay, so it reminds me a little bit of all of this that we've been talking about, I used to really like to listen to and I don't know exactly the genre. But I'll just describe it as like Middle Eastern, like folk music, because they do, I, they do a lot of the kind of you use the word before again, I don't know the name of the word, but where they go Oh, like they do a lot of,

[00:44:28] yeah.

[00:44:30] squadcaster-bha4_1_03-20-2024_180955: or ornamentation.

[00:44:32] ashley---she-her-_1_03-20-2024_180957: that's what you were saying. And it, even when they're doing it, it's you could compare it to I don't know, like Mariah Carey, like when she's doing her like

[00:44:43] up and down. It's not the

[00:44:44] same, but it's like very different. Yeah it's very different. And when you listen to Mariah Carey do it, you're just like, oh, that's cool.

[00:44:51] But when you listen to these people do it, it's like this very deep To me, and I don't know how other people may feel about it, but you [00:45:00] almost like long to feel how they're feeling in that

[00:45:02] squadcaster-bha4_1_03-20-2024_180955: Yeah. Yeah. That's well said. Yeah.

[00:45:05] ashley---she-her-_1_03-20-2024_180957: You're like, wow, this is this person is really feeling everything at this moment.

[00:45:09] And I want to feel it too. And I want to sing along with them. And really, and I used to always, like you're saying, speaking of like, here and not really knowing, like having that kind of lack of music to listen to. I used to really love that like Middle Eastern kind of wailing kind of music. I just always, yeah, I always really enjoyed it.

[00:45:34] And I felt like it. And the first time I ever heard it was like when I was listening, if everyone, anyone's ever heard Desert Rose by Sting, he has, he sings with the middle eastern singer on the track and I found this guy and I became obsessed with him I forget his name now, but this was like 20 15 years ago when I used to listen to song over and over because I Just

[00:45:53] loved like the wailing part of it.

[00:45:55] squadcaster-bha4_1_03-20-2024_180955: hmm.

[00:45:56] ashley---she-her-_1_03-20-2024_180957: but yeah, that's really cool And then when you were just singing just [00:46:00] now I felt that same way. It was like you really Even you're only singing it once so I can imagine in the class doing it over and over Like how into it you get and maybe it has to do with again You can tell me the vibration of it Like the way

[00:46:17] your voice is vibrating and i'm sure when people are singing it, you know together or they're singing it by themselves later on they probably that vibration it does something to your body at least I think so other people may feel different but I feel like it does something to your body and it does relax you in a way and it puts you in this different place. Yeah I don't know how you feel, but that's how I feel. Even when you were singing, I felt like I was going there and I was like, I still have to finish this show. So I was like a kid, you were there right now? But I felt that in my bones, like when you're, the way you were singing, it was just Deep and like I felt meditative and I felt like I was slipping into that like really safe, warm, beautiful space. And I just, I'm obsessed [00:47:00] with that. That's so cool. Yeah.

[00:47:02] squadcaster-bha4_1_03-20-2024_180955: Yeah, I think there's something really powerful about first, you know, the shroody, the shroody box that I just played is create such a beautiful bed of pitches. Of drone behind our voices, and I think that creates a lot of relaxation because there's all these automatic harmonies happening. And it's like we're being carried along by the ocean or something.

[00:47:24] And I love that about this instrument and then, yeah, to sing in a group of people and to feel each other vibrating to be interacting with the vibrations. Between our bodies feels amazing and we know like from studies, right? Like we shouldn't need, we don't even need studies for this, right? But it, it creates oxytocin release.

[00:47:49] It makes us feel more relaxed. It slows down our heart rates. We feel more joy. There are all these ways that we feel so, so, so good when we're vibrating together in that way. And then getting to [00:48:00] engage in the pulse, like not thinking about the virtuosic, like being virtuosic about performing, not thinking about song as performance, just like sharing in the experience of singing together over and over, right?

[00:48:13] To the point where like, you're not even thinking about the words, the

[00:48:16] words don't even have meaning anymore. We're just like shaping sound together. Feels amazing.

[00:48:22] And yeah, those vibrations are, are definitely medicine.

[00:48:27] ashley---she-her-_1_03-20-2024_180957: I love that. So you also, I know you talk about and it makes it again, I'm going to use the wrong terms, but it makes it sound like this with the shootie box when you play it. It's, it reminds me a lot of polyphonic singing.

[00:48:46] squadcaster-bha4_1_03-20-2024_180955: Mm, mm hmm.

[00:48:48] ashley---she-her-_1_03-20-2024_180957: and I know sorry, I know I'm referencing a lot of like music that I know trying to.

[00:48:53] Yeah. Because I really do enjoy this style of music. That's part of the reason, like I found you and I was like, [00:49:00] Oh, this is so cool. Because I just really love it. There's another band that I listened to. They're a Polish like female group and they do. polyphonic singing

[00:49:12] and polyphonic singing too.

[00:49:14] And they do a lot of I feel like they're they do a lot of animist singing and they pick

[00:49:19] songs from different Slavic. countries. Actually, they do it from a whole bunch of them, and they sing these songs, but there's eight of them. And the polyphonic singing too, it does something to you.

[00:49:32] So even you singing by yourself just now but with the Strudibox, it even sounds like that. Even though it's just it's very cool. I love that style of singing to the polyphonic and I know George in Georgia,

[00:49:47] they're very it's a big thing traditionally there to polyphonic singing.

[00:49:51] I'll put a video also in the show notes or anybody wants to see what I'm talking about, but it's very neat style of singing and

[00:49:59] squadcaster-bha4_1_03-20-2024_180955: Yeah. [00:50:00] Yeah. I think a lot of times those so yeah, and when we say like polyphonic or polyphony, all that means basically is multiple melodies being sung. And like, intertwining with each other, so we're here, we might think, like, we might often say, like, oh, well, there's the main melody and then there are harmonies that, like.

[00:50:18] Are in response to the main melody, and are, like, supporting it, or, like, working or kind of playing around it in polyphony. We have multiple melodies going at the same time that often do but don't always harmonize like there might be times where there's where there's kind of some crunchy, like, awesome crunchy stuff.

[00:50:35] That's not what we would consider harmony, at least in this culture. And yeah, in those cultures a lot. There's. In like Baltic polyphony and in like Georgia as well. There's often these drone parts that are being held down. And I think that's probably part of what you're thinking of when you hear the Shruti box, right?

[00:50:52] That there's often these voices that are just holding down these amazing drones. And then other people are singing on top of that. [00:51:00] Yeah. And so I do, yeah, I've been creating a lot of polyphony in the work I've been doing. And there, there's kind of a, there's a particular movement going on in, in this country and I assume other places as well around types of singing.

[00:51:17] It's a genre I would call like affirmation songs or heart songs, but people who are creating accessibility to song through you know, just leading song and big community things now that's already been going on for a long time through in like traditional song communities like that's just been the case for a long time, but there's also kind of this other movement where people are creating kind of creating their own songs and a lot of times those songs focus on nature.

[00:51:45] They focus on sort of emotional affirmation and they often play a lot with polyphony. So I'm sort of, in my work, I'm sort of bringing together both of these influences, like the historic and traditional songs I'm familiar with, and then [00:52:00] And just the, the literally the folk traditions of, in this case of like, of paganism, right.

[00:52:05] And, and then kind of this, this sound that is influenced by like Eastern European polyphony. And also just the ways that people are playing with polyphony in kind of like the heart song movement. So I thought actually I could play a little bit, this would be a recording, something I have on my, on my looper of a polyphonic song I created for, Yule for the winter solstice.

[00:52:31] ashley---she-her-_1_03-20-2024_180957: Absolutely.

[00:52:33] squadcaster-bha4_1_03-20-2024_180955: So to introduce this song, . So this song has four parts and it's called Come Crimson Mother and it's for being sung at the winter solstice.

[00:52:45] And You know, we don't have so many of, we don't have the songs from the Neolithic period, right. Or from like much older Celtic sources or much older Anglo Saxon sources, like before people [00:53:00] were Christianized, you know, it's been a few thousand years of Christianization, right. And of course there are traces of paganism and animism in so many of the songs that we do have.

[00:53:11] But part of what I like to do is like, imagine like, okay, well, you know, what sentiments, what things were, were people. what ideas and rituals were people working through at these different times of year. So let's reimagine those songs.

[00:53:23] And so solstice literally means the sun stands still. So this was a time where for at least several days to a lot of peoples, ancient peoples, it looked as if the sun was not really changing her course in the sky.

[00:53:40] Like she was rising and But she wasn't Widening her breath like her, you know, her scope in the sky had gotten smaller and smaller. And it seems for a while that she is just kind of doing the same loop. She's not getting higher in the sky. She's not getting lower in the sky. So this sense that the sun is sort of just on repeat [00:54:00] and

[00:54:00] Movement is happening.

[00:54:01] And so I like to kind of imagine this moment of people. The fear of people wondering, like, is the sun going to return again? Is she going to start to widen her scope? Is she going to raise higher in the sky again? Or is she stuck? Is she coming back? Right?

[00:54:15] And in Indo European traditions, and Indo European people started to spread across Europe.

[00:54:21] It's thought from the caucuses like many thousands of years ago, but they brought a lot of new, for the time, new deities with them, including a dawn goddess who is now has many names in different cultures from the Baltics to the Mediterranean. So in like Greece, you know, in Rome, we would know her as Aurora and Eos

[00:54:41] In Eastern Europe, where there are still songs to her because in places like Lithuania.

[00:54:46] They converted to Christianity much, much later, like 15th century, even much later. So we have songs to Saule and Aushrene and we don't have many records of her in the far, in far Northwestern Europe,

[00:54:59] There's [00:55:00] one source that tells us that, that the Anglo Saxons worship this woman named Aostra.

[00:55:04] And that name is very much cognate with these other names, you know, it just means East, right? Where the sun rises, where the dawn comes. So and that, that's whom, that's whom like Ostara is named for as well, Ostara Aostra with, with the spring equinox just now.

[00:55:19] But what I was imagining was, you know, what would it look like for people to be singing for the sun to come back at the winter solstice?

[00:55:27] And singing to this goddess, right, singing to the dawn goddess to come back. So, the words you're going to hear in this song are, Won't you move, won't you move, won't you move, mother. So like asking the sun to start moving again, won't you move again? Then we have golden crimson mother. Won't you come dawn bringer? And in so many of the texts to this dawn goddess, particularly like the most, the richest texts we have to her are from India where [00:56:00] she is known as Ushas and Hindu traditions, U S H A S. So she's golden, she's crimson, she's saffron. And then our last part is sitting still, sitting still. So reflecting that the sun is, this moment of the sun not moving.

[00:56:14] So I'm gonna bring in this song now.

[00:56:18] ashley---she-her-_1_03-20-2024_180957: Okay.

[00:56:22] squadcaster-bha4_1_03-20-2024_180955: Won't you move, won't you move, won't you move, mother? Won't you move, won't you move, won't you move, mother? Get in. won't you Mother, won't you Coolo? don't you move a single stringondern won't you Mother, won't you Coolo? don't you move a single string so dead and you stared until you died[00:57:00]

[00:57:24] Get her, get her, get her. Won't you mother, won't you come, Don't you move again, again, again. Won't you move, won't you move, won't you move again, again, again.

[00:57:44] ashley---she-her-_1_03-20-2024_180957: Yay! Oh, wow.

[00:57:51] I'm, yeah I'm just thinking like what I am imagining the, it just, [00:58:00] it all comes back to your whole course, this whole Singing the Wheel of the Year comes back to the fact that for ancient peoples. Everything was very uncertain and having these rituals were a way of even if even if okay, we have, I'm sure they understood that yes, this solstice thing is going to happen every year. We know it's going to happen every year. But what if one year we don't do the ritual? Maybe, for real, the sun really won't move, guys. Maybe we should still do it. It's just that ritual was so comforting for them. And that's why I think it was so important. It's because everything else was so uncertain. We don't actually know. And when you don't, I feel like now we have a little bit, not a little bit. There's a lack of ritual in the general culture and society because of the fact that it's I know how this works and I know that this is going to [00:59:00] happen because this would happen and because this happens, but back then we didn't, they didn't know exactly how everything worked scientifically.

[00:59:08] They knew it worked, but their explanations were usually Mythical at best because we don't they didn't know how the Sun moved in space and all that stuff they didn't know actually a lot about space, but they know why so These things were so in important to them and just that song is Making me really put me in the place of thinking of these ancient peoples being like yeah We probably got to do this ritual just in case Like, like just in case this time the sun doesn't move and everything stays the same and like the season doesn't change, we should probably still sing because that's probably a good idea.

[00:59:52] squadcaster-bha4_1_03-20-2024_180955: Well, and what I like about, you know, and you know, it would have varied so much from culture to culture of like what that looked like or what the [01:00:00] relationship was thought to be. But. Yeah. What I do really like about that is that there is a sense of reciprocity, right? That like we, we give this, we give the ritual so that the sun can come back or we give we sacrifice a part of our food or we sacrifice our labor

[01:00:18] so that the field will come back or so that we will, you know, the gods will grant bounty or mercy, but that there is a relationship happening where.

[01:00:30] And that, that's something that is something that draws me really deeply to, to Pagan kind of devotional practice. The idea of having a relationship with these deities and that there's a give and take and that in my intention of giving to them and asking them in turn to work through me, I, it feels communal.

[01:00:51] It feels communal in a very different way than I think how we're often, you know, understood to, we're often taught to see the world around [01:01:00] us, the animate world, the living world, and even some of the ways that we learn to interact with spiritual forces or with, or with God, depending on our upbringing.

[01:01:10] But to me, it all comes back to relationships.

[01:01:14] ashley---she-her-_1_03-20-2024_180957: Yes. That was absolutely wonderful. Thank you for sharing with us all about the the wheel of the year and just these different rituals that you're doing. And this has just been really interesting and eyeopening. So thank you so much for sharing all of this. This has been absolutely fantastic. So

[01:01:33] squadcaster-bha4_1_03-20-2024_180955: Yeah,

[01:01:34] ashley---she-her-_1_03-20-2024_180957: yeah, so we've come to the end and we're going to have to Sorrow go but Sorrow, do you want to let people know where they can find you on the internet and if they want to check you out more or take any of your classes?

[01:01:50] squadcaster-bha4_1_03-20-2024_180955: sure. So you can find me on social media as song speak, Sarah, just S A R O. So song speak Sarah, I'm [01:02:00] on Instagram and on Tik TOK and you can find me on Facebook as well. I have a website, Sarah sings. com. A lot of my music can also be found on band camp. If you just look for Sarah Lynch on band camp I am working on releasing a lot more singles this year and.

[01:02:17] Working towards an album of just of chant and like animate pagan songs like the ones you just heard so that is in the works. So if you follow me, you will get to learn more about that. I also have a newsletter. I, I'll, you know what, I'll just go ahead and get my email. If you, you can join my newsletter, which is really the best way to keep track of what I've got going on.

[01:02:37] And you can email me at sarahsingssongs at gmail. com. Yeah, so there's, there's, those are some different ways to keep track of what I've, what I'm up to.

[01:02:49] ashley---she-her-_1_03-20-2024_180957: Awesome! And of course, everything will be in the show notes, everyone you'll be able to see everything there. And I just really [01:03:00] think that if you're if you Because I know a lot of people listen to this podcast. A lot of people are into different spiritual avenues. Sarah's music and the way she sings and now with her, singing the wheel of the year It can really help you put you in that space and all of her singing honestly Please go follow her because she's it's fascinating.

[01:03:22] It's a beautiful singing. It's really wonderful I really enjoy it and I have gotten to see you on social media and it's really a pleasure like it's really cool, I encourage everyone to follow Sero and enjoy it as much as I do, please, because it's really good. I just want to put that out there.

[01:03:41] Well, absolutely, it's absolutely beautiful. You're very talented. And the fact that you wrap all of the singing up in your in history and connecting people to history. And. What another thing we didn't talk too much about, but I know [01:04:00] you do a lot of stuff about about like feminism and songs representing,

[01:04:06] Different communities. I think that's really neat too. And I remember taking like a introductory kind of class with you. And you were singing some of these songs and talking about how These songs were, some of them were protest songs. Some of them were songs that women sang together just to enjoy themselves. And it was just really neat.

[01:04:28] So you go into all these different avenues and I think it's so interesting, especially if you like history, you would really enjoy these different courses and the different things that sorrow talks about. So I just want to say that. So much for being here once again, sorrow. Thank you so much for your time and chit chatting with all of us and singing for us.

[01:04:50] Thank you so much. That was absolutely wonderful. What a treat. And as always,

[01:04:54] everybody, this, yes, thank you as always, everybody. This is dying [01:05:00] with the divine. If you didn't know. So if you want to follow the show, we're at dying with divine on Instagram and Facebook, TikTok. Youtube all that good stuff if you enjoy the show I really appreciate it if you take a minute just to press, Five stars if you want to or whatever you say it with your chest On apple spotify wherever you listen to this podcast if you have any suggestions for episodes or comments Please feel free to email me at dimewithadevinepod at gmail.

[01:05:30] com. I'm here. I will respond to You can message me too on any apps if you have any questions or want to Tell me something. Please do. I'm there and if you wanna follow me, Ashley, I'm at Sankofa hs. It's S-A-N-K-O-A, the S-A-N-K-O-F-A-H-S on multiple platforms. And also the whole thing is Sankofa Healing Sanctuary, and that's on Facebook. Thank you everybody so much for being here. I hope you all have an amazing, awesome week, and [01:06:00] I'll see you next week. Bye.

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