Slavic Folk Magic and Burning Skulls with Caireann from Hearth and Besom

Caireann

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[00:00:00] Ashley: Welcome everybody to Dine with the Divine. I'm your host, Ashley, and together we'll be exploring the magical, the mystical and everything in between. So on today's episode, we're going to talk about some food podcast.

[00:00:21] I hope you're having a great day, and if not, I hope it gets really much better soon. So today, we have a fantastic guest, as usual. We have Karianne, and Karianne is a Slavic American folk practitioner, living in the shadow of the New York City area. Her journey into folk magic has been under the tutelage of her Slavic baba, and Polish babcia.

[00:00:44] I couldn't say this word, actually, because I've said it before. Bob Shaw that's what I mean, you guys know what I mean at a very young age, working with her ancestors, incorporating Slavic folklore and traditions such as Siromancy, Smoke Divination, and Pyromancy, [00:01:00] along with a deep respect and understanding for the duality of the old ways, This has all shaped her practice.

[00:01:07] Carrie Anne considers herself a blend of hearth, hedge, folk, and folk traditions walking between this modern world and that across the veil. Her unpredictable hedge abilities lend a little bit of spice to her goulash of a practice. Yay! So how are you today, Carrie Anne?

[00:01:25] Caireann: I'm great. Thank you so much for having me on your show.

[00:01:28] I am

[00:01:28] Ashley: honored to be here. Oh, great. No. I like, I really enjoy your content. It's really cute. It's really fun. I feel like I'm learning something. I really like it. . I always start out by asking people, How did you start your practice? With all your magical beautifulness. Oh my

[00:01:47] Caireann: goodness this is, It's, I don't think that my, my story is, It's too far off from a lot of practitioners, to be perfectly honest, because especially in folk [00:02:00] magic there is this, usually in, in folk magic, you're brought up in some type of an Abrahamic religion or tradition.

[00:02:06] And this is like the old ways, the things that, you know, your grandparents or your mother and father did. Outside of the church or the synagogue or wherever you went and worshipped because there was that there is that that how would you say I there's a colonization in in, in all cultures, and so even in the Slavic cultures, there was this the, Christendom came in Constantinople and the Byzantine Empire came in and said, Hey, you're all going to be Catholics now.

[00:02:33] And so the people, under fear of death, in most cases they, they converted, but secretly they kept their old ways. So this all ties into my story because, I'm growing up, my mother was Roman Catholic, my father was a Byzantine Orthodox, and this is the environment that I was raised in.

[00:02:51] But but a very

[00:02:52] I knew more of the Slovak and the Polish part of my ethnicity than I did the American experience, and so what happened [00:03:00] was, I'm immersed in all of this, and I felt this, and then I would go see my Baba or my Babji, and, like, when my parents weren't around, they were teaching me these things.

[00:03:10] And so there was like this like religious tug of war, like back and forth, like, like I would feel a pull towards it, and at the same and I'd be learning these things, but at the same time, like, then I would go to church, and then I would hear, This is bad. This is bad. You can't be doing this.

[00:03:24] And then I would say okay, this is bad. I

[00:03:25] Ashley: can't be doing this.

[00:03:28] Caireann: But then I would start doing these things that, that I was being taught. And and so there was this like back and forth and back and forth for a long time, for many years. I mean, I, jeez, I was knee high to the sink when my grandmother started teaching me these things.

[00:03:44] So it's been with me for a long time. But I think it was probably... In my twenties that I finally started to say, I'm going to carry this tradition and I'm going to do these things and I've always had this in me and then fully into my thirties. I just embraced [00:04:00] it and I said, this is just who I am.

[00:04:03] Ashley: Yeah. Okay. Very nice. Yeah, it's and like you said, I hear it. All the people who've come on this podcast who are so willing to share their story, I think we all have that similarity of knowing something. A lot of people, it's because of their roots or where they're from, they know that.

[00:04:23] And they have this kind of magical thinking when you're a kid and then you get older and there comes a point sometimes where you feel like, oh, I gotta be like everybody else. I'm not gonna really deal with this. And then you just get older and don't care. So

[00:04:39] I just love that. And you know what? I feel like a lot of people, and maybe this is just me, but I feel like a lot of people never get to that point where they feel like they don't care, and they lose a lot of that magic in their life, and it sucks, because it's such And, at least this is how I feel, [00:05:00] I now can't imagine my life without this, spiritual part of it, one of my friends said this one time, she's like, Does everyone know how much fun this is?

[00:05:10] Does everyone, what are the rest of you guys doing all day? You guys must be really bored. Yeah, it's like, it's so weird. It's like, once you can never go back.

[00:05:19] Caireann: That's fun. That's such an incredible I love the way you express that because I was having a similar thought the other day It was interesting that I was just walking from room to room and moving things around and lighting candles and changing up herbs And things and I thought to myself This is just I don't have to think about a daily practice, this is just who I am, and it comes through in the way I decorate my home, and the things that I say, and the things that I study, and the people that I associate with, and this is nice, I like it.

[00:05:53] Ashley: You're like, wow, the person I have become is great. I'm really,

[00:05:57] Caireann: I'm really cool with this. It was either that or [00:06:00] maybe it was the mugwort that I was born, I was

[00:06:04] Ashley: born into. I know mugwort will give you some thoughts. You'll be like, you know what? Actually, I'm awesome. Yeah, my life is pretty cool sometimes.

[00:06:15] Yeah, this is pretty nice. I

[00:06:16] Caireann: love that.

[00:06:20] Ashley: Oh, that's so fun. So I also wanted to ask you so a couple things when I was looking at like your profile and different things that you do. What, can you tell us what what is seromancy? Because I didn't get to look that up. Oh, that's just a big

[00:06:35] Caireann: fancy word for, reading how the wax drips off of a candle.

[00:06:38] That's all it is.

[00:06:40] Ashley: Oh! Okay, yeah. I think I've seen different types of how wax, wax drips. I've seen some people do it into water. Yeah.

[00:06:47] Caireann: Yeah, that's a more traditional, it's very like old country, old school way of doing it, but there's so many different ways that, that you can do it, because [00:07:00] I think a lot of times when people forget is that like the old, our ancestors, they didn't have time to sit around and wait for a candle to finish burning and then to study it. While Baba was, Doing that she was making bread and she was baking and she had to go down for coal and you know I guess she wasn't like busy Exactly. You know if she didn't have time to sit there and to drip it into the water But you know every so often like if there was a real burning question about something was going on if somebody gave you the evil eye or something but otherwise you just let the candle burn down and, you pray your intentions over and then you let the candle burn down and then you look at it and you see what shapes or how it burned.

[00:07:40] If the smoke went to the east, it was an emotional issue and it went to the west, it was more of a political or something like that, they had their ways of knowing. And so it was the same thing with the wax, like how did the wax. Did it form?

[00:07:51] Did it make a puddle? Is it all on one side? That kind of a thing.

[00:07:54] Ashley: Okay. Very interesting. I'll be honest

[00:07:57] Caireann: with you, I looked up the words because I feel like I'm so [00:08:00] folksy, I would just be like, just handle readings and people would be like, it's called seromancy. I don't know, I'm a bumpkin, I

[00:08:09] Ashley: love that, I know, that's why I was like. I was thinking out like right before we started I was like looking at the notes my notes real quick I was like, man, I should have looked up some of these

[00:08:24] Pyro I know cuz when I was a kid, I knew I was gonna be magical cuz I love to burn stuff and my mom would always be like you're a pyromaniac And you're gonna burn this house down because I just like to burn And then I remember, and this is so random, I remember I looked up like in we were taught, I was watching some show that I probably shouldn't have been watching at the age of 11.

[00:08:45] And they were talking about like serial killers. And like, how do you know your kids gonna be like, a serial killer? And they were like, one of the things is they burn stuff. I was like,

[00:08:56] yeah, but then they were like, herding animals. I was like, Oh, no, I don't do that. But [00:09:00] then I thought of the time that like, I cut a worm in half. Because I found out that it could multiply and I was like, I have herd animals, I'm such a bad person. I was worried for him. I really I remember being seriously very worried that I was going to become a serial killer and telling like my friend at school and she's like, No, Ashley, you just don't kill people.

[00:09:22] And that's how you don't become one. I was like, Oh. Okay. I was like. Note to self. Okay. I know. Note to self. I just don't have to kill anybody. I was like, okay, I haven't done that. So I guess. I'm good for now. 35 years I still haven't murdered anybody. So I thinking I'm all right now.

[00:09:39] I'm outta that phase. . Oh man. I'm safe. I know. I'm like, thank God. Passing phase. Right. I turned 18. I was like, oh, okay. I didn't murder anybody. I'm not gonna become a child. Serial killer. It's fine. , oh my God. The other thing I was going to ask you. So is smoke divination similar to that? Like [00:10:00] you're reading the smoke.

[00:10:02] I

[00:10:02] Caireann: don't, to be honest, the way I learned it is like the candle is a whole unit. So for us, we don't separate okay, I'm just going to blow it out and I'm going to, or I'm going to watch, or I'm just going to watch the flame or I'm just going to read the wax. The way I was taught it, and I mean, this is the thing about folk magic that's so beautiful is that it's like baking a cake.

[00:10:22] You and I can both have a cake, a recipe for chocolate cake, but you might add, vanilla in yours, and I might not. Or I might add something different, or you might make yours with dates, and I might sweeten mine with honey. There's still gonna be chocolate cake. Yeah. At the day. So for me, like I might say, this is how I learned it and somebody might listen to this podcast and go, Oh, absolutely not.

[00:10:43] That's not the way to look. Oh, okay. Okay. That's why I only have 2, 000 followers. I don't want to make anybody angry. I don't have time for that. I'm getting old now. I just want everybody to be free. friend, all I can say is this is the way I learned it, right or [00:11:00] wrong and it works for me.

[00:11:01] Like you burn in the candle and you watch the flame and if there's any, like we call it soot coming off. How is it burning clean or not? If it's a strong flame, is it leaning to the right, to the east or the west, that kind of thing. And then when you, and then, then ultimately when you Blow it or snuff it out.

[00:11:17] We usually blow it out because then your breath goes into the flame. You blow it out and you see how the smoke goes. If it's curling, if it's leaning this way or that way. But I always loved my grandfather was the funniest. We'd be doing to be like, it means the house is drafty.

[00:11:37] I'm like, I would be like. Get out of here.

[00:11:40] Ashley: Like, you guys are being a little silly right now. It just, there's wind. It means the house

[00:11:45] Caireann: is drafty. I have to caulk up the windows again.

[00:11:49] Ashley: It's cold.

[00:11:50] Caireann: Oh, okay. That's so funny. That's like that, that Appalachian magic with the weather rock. If the weather rock, if the rock is wet, it means it's [00:12:00] raining.

[00:12:00] If you can't see the

[00:12:01] Ashley: rock, it means it's

[00:12:03] Caireann: foggy. I love that. If the rock rolls down the hill, it's windy.

[00:12:10] I

[00:12:11] Ashley: think it's a little bit more than that. I know. That is funny though. I like that. I haven't heard that one. I love that. Also, when you were mentioning before about like the candles again, I really like to talk about Outlander on this podcast. So it made me think of a scene in Outlander where Claire one of the main characters was making candles with the other ladies in the town and it seemed like an all day activity.

[00:12:34] So I was like, Vodka was like, you know what? I'm gonna use this candle for divination, but I also have to get things done. And do you know how much work it took me to get candles? Exactly.

[00:12:45] Caireann: Yeah,

[00:12:46] Ashley: exactly. Either she made them, or she had to go to a lady who made them, who charged her, and she's like, oh my gosh.

[00:12:51] No, listen, I

[00:12:52] Caireann: think how like, I remember a while ago, I had posted something about making candles. I posted it just. recently about it again. It just made me think of it. [00:13:00] And the person was like, you repurpose your candles? And I was like, yeah, if I burn, down a candle for a particular intention or whatever, and there's a half of an inch, and it won't, light anymore.

[00:13:10] And I have a bunch of candles in the same fragrance or color, and I know that it wasn't used for banishing or something. And I'll put them in the water, boil them down, and I'll make a new candle out of it and repurpose it. But what about all the old intentions? And I'm like, I just Do you think my grandmother

[00:13:23] Ashley: had time for that?

[00:13:24] She's this

[00:13:25] Caireann: candle glass, I burn them together, I have a new candle. I pray over it, it goes away. Like, you repurpose it, you put new energies into it, you ask for it to be cleansed, or just the simple fact that it's sitting in a pot of water and there's steam and vapor, you can put your intention into it and cleanse it.

[00:13:41] I'm cleansing this wax for the purpose of using it for a new ritual. There you go

[00:13:47] Ashley: Yes, it's just like what you were saying like folk magic is really about Using what you got and you don't have to have anything fancy if you don't want again, we love fancy things I love fancy things, [00:14:00] but if you don't have them you can still do it like you don't need it people You know back in the day.

[00:14:05] They were like we got some apples. We got a candle And we got a knife. All right, we'll figure this out. There you go. We'll figure it out. Whatever.

[00:14:15] Caireann: Somebody said to me one time, as soon as I said it, they saw a picture of my athme, and they were like, that's not an athme, that's a kitchen paring knife.

[00:14:24] And I go, yeah, do you want to argue with Baba about that? I don't want to argue with her. If she says that's what it is. And I like, she didn't call, it was her knife. It was for cutting cords, it was for cutting connections, it was for, like that kind of thing. It didn't matter and, people would say What kind of a witch are you and I was like listen first of all if I ever said to my Baba that's what She was she probably smacked me

[00:14:57] You were just doing the work is that's what she called it, And [00:15:00] a

[00:15:00] Ashley: lot of things there's so many things in a lot of our different cultures That we don't realize is quote, now people are like, ooh, it's so witchy. But most of the time you're like, nah, that's just like what we do.

[00:15:12] Like we, you pour out liquor. Anybody, gang members pour out liquor for their dead homies, right? Is that still a thing? Yeah, and that's folk magic. You know what I mean? That's an offering to your ancestors. It's the same thing. There's things we do all the time that we don't realize are actually magical, we just don't label it because we're like, oh, especially in different cultures, because you're just like, no, that's just what we always do.

[00:15:36] We just always do it like this. It's is there a reason? No. You there is a reason from three thousand years ago, but For you're like no, this is just my everyday activity when I leave the house I throw holy water when I do this I do that like it's just normal to you. So that's a beautiful day folk So we had a lot of people on this.

[00:15:55] Podcast who do folk magic and I love how everybody has their own practice, and [00:16:00] also how it becomes so easy for them, like you said, it just integrates itself into your life. Like it's just, it's very beautiful like that. I love a little folksiness it's fun. This is so random, I have a Polish coworker who I absolutely adore, she's hilarious, and There's a town in Poland and it's beautiful.

[00:16:22] It has all these like folk art and all over it. It's called, it starts with a Z. I'll have to put a pic up in the show notes, but I'm just hearing her right now cause she always makes fun of me. Cause I'm always like, Oh, I want to go to this town. It's so beautiful. She's like, I don't like the folk. And she just is like the funniest person on earth.

[00:16:43] I'm just imagining her yelling at me talking about Defolk. Defolk! She's hilarious. I love her so much. I was gonna say you said the town starts with a Z. I was gonna say that's half the towns in Poland. Starts with a Z and it has a name that is very long and all the [00:17:00] Js sound like Ys and all the I won't even, I won't

[00:17:02] Caireann: even venture it.

[00:17:03] I won't even venture a guess because I'm more Slovak

[00:17:05] Ashley: American than I am Polish American. I know it's there. I mean, they're both pretty. Difficult languages actually to learn they're very hard, but they're very cool, like when you hear people speak Slovak, I like it. It just sounds good. I enjoy it. Okay.

[00:17:21] We're gonna go to our next section, which is our dish of the week. So you mentioned goulash in your biography, and I was like, I don't even know what goulash is, so that's what we're gonna talk about. Okay. I was like, I don't even know what that is, I've never heard of it. Goulash is just,

[00:17:37] Caireann: it's just really a, it's just a word that means like a stew.

[00:17:41] And I think every creature has their stews. It's a food of the poor people, and if you could get meat. in it. Hey, it was a good day, and a lot of people would argue that goulash is more of like a a hung, a Hungarian kind of a thing, but all the Slavic cultures have their goulashes.

[00:17:59] In particular, I [00:18:00] know my Baba used to make well, everything is with cabbage, a lot of cabbage. We would make what we call a capusta, which is like a you would a cabbage and a sauerkraut and pork, and you would boil it down and it ends up just being it's stick to your ribs, good comfort food for the winter time in particular.

[00:18:17] And then if you had a little bit of cleve, which is a bread, then you made at home, then you dip it in there and. That was good. Just it was to fill you up, stick to your ribs. Good home cooking kind of a thing.

[00:18:29] Ashley: Yeah, when I was reading like, excuse me, in particular, this recipe, that's what it sounded like.

[00:18:36] And again, like you said, there's so many cool, there's so many cultures we had some in our podcast earlier was from Diana talking about cook up rice, which was a similar idea. It was like, whatever you had, you put it in there. And that was the situation. And like you said, if you had some meat.

[00:18:51] Yeah, we're having a great day.

[00:18:54] Caireann: Exactly. Put a little bit of andurki potatoes in there. To fill up the space. [00:19:00] Yeah. Yep, absolutely. And of course, I wouldn't be Slovak if I didn't say make sure you add the garlic and the paprika. Lots of paprika.

[00:19:09] Ashley: Lots of paprika. I love it. Yeah, it's a very yeah, I see it's very like hearty.

[00:19:15] If you can do it, it's very hearty, and it's probably something that was easy to cook for the whole family, like we're all gonna just eat this, and like you said, wintertime, these are countries where it gets cold you gotta, you like to have a warm soup, everyone can eat it, all the, usually it's the women who are cooking, they're probably like, look, I'm tired I don't have time to be cooking all this stuff, let me just cook a big pot, so everybody can eat it, and I don't wanna leave you alone.

[00:19:42] Caireann: It's definitely a, it's definitely a home, a comfort food. It's definitely one of those foods that when you're having a bad day and it's what you're like, I

[00:19:49] Ashley: could really go for

[00:19:50] Caireann: a goulash and that kind of thing. Definitely. I mean, you're like, look, my husband's from Colombia, from the country of Colombia, because Colombians have their sancocho.

[00:19:59] And[00:20:00] the Creole French have what, gumbo. Yeah. The Irish have their beef stew and we have our goulash, our, our capusta.

[00:20:08] Ashley: Yes. I love it. So some of the ingredients in this particular goulash, we have onions, green peppers, ground beef, garlic, tomato sauce, diced tomatoes, beef broth, Worcestershire sauce, seasoned salt, Italian seasoning, bay leaves, dry noodles, and cheese. You can put cheese. But

[00:20:29] Caireann: no, you don't put cheese.

[00:20:31] Ashley: I don't know. That's what I wouldn't want to eat this with cheese. It sounds like she's going to ruin it. Honestly, I would like it without cheese.

[00:20:38] Caireann: Yeah. If they had cheese, it would be farmer's cheese, which is like a cottage cheese.

[00:20:42] And I don't think you would put that. I know. I think my grandfather would hit me if I put that in.

[00:20:48] Ashley: Yeah, I think this is probably like the very American version because they're like, cheese.

[00:20:54] Caireann: Cheese goes good in everything. No, I honestly, it sounds it's it is a version of a goulash. What I [00:21:00] was talking to you about is more it comes out to be Laura, like a most like a white sauce to it.

[00:21:04] But the type of goulash that the type of goulash that you're talking about is a really good goulash and it's almost like a beef stew and it's real rich. And of course, it's like anything if you have a bread to just dip in there and it's good. Yeah. Yeah. And then you need a nap afterwards.

[00:21:19] Ashley: Yes, this looks like a nap meal.

[00:21:21] But yeah. I'm going to probably actually make this at some point because this actually sounds really good. I was like, I'm gonna make this week probably. Make it in

[00:21:30] Caireann: your slow cooker and then leave the cheese out. Yes!

[00:21:33] Ashley: Yeah, definitely. We don't need cheese for this. Cheese is gonna ruin it.

[00:21:35] Especially cheddar cheese? No, thank you. Okay. So that's goulash. This is an American goulash. I just found where it said that. But I'm also gonna find a more classic goulash and also put that in the show notes for people to look at too. Okay. So our next thing we're, oh! First before we move on let me plug myself.

[00:21:52] I always forget to do this sometimes ah, if you don't know you're listening to my podcast, it's called die with the divine You can subscribe [00:22:00] wherever you'd like to listen to your podcast Apple Spotify. It's all free You can follow us on socials I'm on tik tok Instagram Facebook at time with the divine on all of them if you can leave me a tip There's a link in the show notes if you'd like to do that.

[00:22:16] Also If you would like to email me, you can email me at dime with a divine pod@gmail.com. Okay, so that's that. So now we're gonna go to the next part. So your Instagram handle, handle is hearth and b some, so I was like, I'm gonna find some hy kind of Slavic spells to talk about. Ooh, because that's fun. I'm using, actually using Madame Pamita's book because she has a lot of these, cool bread spells.

[00:22:53] Like, spells that involve food. And I was like, yeah, let's do that. There's a whole [00:23:00] thing here, which I don't know. She's Ukrainian, but she does a lot of different Slavic stuff, like, in general. There's this bread divination, which I thought was pretty cool. With bread divination you can make bread in different ways to basically make it a spell.

[00:23:18] And I thought that was really cool. So here we were talking about how bread was traditionally, back in the day, baked on a Saturday. And it was believed that if the breads turned out really well, you could use ritual breads to bring luck, health, or wealth to your home. But if the bread was bad that's not good.

[00:23:36] Because it meant, shit was about to go down. It meant something was moving backwards. Everything

[00:23:42] Caireann: meant something. Everything meant something.

[00:23:46] Ashley: Don't you love, I love... I love and hate it because that's also a very West African thing is like, everything means something or everything has a spiritual thing behind it.

[00:23:55] And I know and sometimes it is annoying because you're like, no, like it just fell like [00:24:00] that glass just fell. But everybody's like the glass fell. Our whole family is cursed. One time I broke,

[00:24:06] Caireann: I literally broke my ladle in half. I'm making something. I broke my little hat. And I posted it on my stories and I was like, Kitchen

[00:24:14] Ashley: Riches be like,

[00:24:18] Caireann: Oh, And I wrote, Yeah, it's a sign I need to go buy a new ladle.

[00:24:21] Isn't

[00:24:24] Ashley: it so funny? I feel like every single person is Or like almost every culture, I guess Greek people, if you can break a dish for a good thing, but, and I know in Jewish tradition and after the wedding, they break like a glass, but every, most of the other people I know, if you break something by accident, everybody's cursed.

[00:24:41] We all need to go to church or something like every, I remember breaking like a bowl. Like, when I was a kid, because I was clumsy, And my dad was like, Oh, no. Oh, God. This bowl is broken. I was like, what's gonna happen? He's like I don't know, but I'm so nervous. Or my favorite [00:25:00]

[00:25:00] Caireann: would be like, That's two.

[00:25:02] We're gonna have to wait for three. Things come in three. I'd be like, oh, God, I just slipped.

[00:25:08] Ashley: As soon as you hear like, and it's God bless everybody. But as soon as you hear, like, there's a 90 year old woman that like, so and so passed away, they're like, death comes in threes. So now you're just like waiting for it.

[00:25:21] The person was very old.

[00:25:22] Caireann: Maybe they just roll

[00:25:24] Ashley: it's so crazy. They're like, no, but death comes. I'm like okay, calm down. It's fine, it's gonna be fine. So yeah, if you have bad bread, it meant that everything's about to go wrong in your life or your family.

[00:25:38] Caireann: A lot in the Slavic culture centered around, around the harvest and the wheat.

[00:25:43] And because that was one of their main forms of sustenance. And of course, bread baking was very important part of the culture. And it was all the Slavic countries, whether it was Yugoslavia or Croatia or Bosnia or Poland. Or Ukraine, or Slovakia. This was, [00:26:00] our ancestors were farmers, and this was a central part, and and something went wrong with it.

[00:26:04] God forbid you opened the flower and found weevils in the flower. That was just like, that was it. You were cursed. Somebody had put the evil eye on you. It wasn't like, oh maybe we should, put the lid on more securely, or we should, we should have

[00:26:17] Ashley: left it outside, couldn't be that, yeah, that's what it

[00:26:20] Caireann: was. You were cursed, so yeah, no, definitely. Yeah, definitely.

[00:26:25] Ashley: And that is another really good point that you brought up. Because a lot of our ancestors were farmers, or, were dependent on the farmer in their community, if they weren't the farmer, maybe they were the blacksmith, or they were the local midwife or whatever the situation may be.

[00:26:42] But when you come from people who weren't kings and queens, everything depended... on the farmers usually in the town. And depending on where you're from, say you're from a place like a Slavic country where you have winter, everything needs to go well, right? Yeah. [00:27:00] Because in winter, nothing grows because that's how winter works.

[00:27:03] And then if you're from a hotter country during rainy season, it has to rain the right amount because if it rains too much, all the crops are ruined, right? But if it rains too little, all the crops are ruined. So All of our ancestors were very dependent on the weather. And I think that's why we have so many weather spells and weather gods.

[00:27:24] And because they were like freaking out. They're like, listen, if there's no meteorology, there's no refrigerator. There's no, if shit goes bad, it goes bad. That's it. They weren't be able to trade and get, pineapples from Hawaii. If you lived in Mongolia, that wasn't an option.

[00:27:39] Exactly. Exactly. You weren't gonna starve.

[00:27:43] Caireann: That was it. It was a done deal. What was interesting though, along the lines of what you're talking about is that a lot of times in the coldest part of the winters, that was it. There was, you hunkered down in the house and there would be times when it wasn't until spring that you didn't find, [00:28:00] that you found out that your neighbors

[00:28:01] Ashley: didn't make it.

[00:28:02] Yeah it's, when I think of sometimes like how, and people talk about oh, religion is waning right now, big popular religions, and actually spirituality is like on the rise, but major religions are on the downfall or whatever, not downfall, but you know what I'm trying to say but You think about people like, oh yeah, those old people, they were so religious, and what's wrong with them?

[00:28:24] Because they had to be, because praying was the only way they would get through certain things. Like you're saying, if you have to be in the house for three months with just your relations, those are the only people, and you don't know how your best friend Matilda down the street is doing, because you don't have a phone, and honestly, it's negative three degrees outside.

[00:28:43] You can't go outside to go hang out with Matilda. You don't

[00:28:46] Caireann: know. No plows coming down to clear the street. Yeah, no, you get a couple good snowstorms one on top of the other and you were in there for a while You

[00:28:53] Ashley: were in there. The only time you went out is to take care of like your horse Your good friend matilda was pregnant.

[00:28:58] You don't even know if she got [00:29:00] through that because when she was about to have the baby. She has to call the midwife. Where's the midwife? Down the street. Can she get out of the house? It's so stressful. It's just so much going on. So I'm like, yeah, no wonder people were dependent on religion because they were like, man, maybe this is the only way we're going to get through is by praying, right?

[00:29:17] Like, because exactly what else again, we can't control the weather.

[00:29:21] Caireann: And then there was that whole, this, you're talking about people who didn't, they're poor people, so they don't have their, lower socioeconomic, they don't have access to the education that we have access to today.

[00:29:31] And I mean, if you think about it, depending on the region and all, there, there were times when people were lucky if they got a third grade education. Yes, and so if you put yourself into that mindset of what you understood and what you thought when you were three years old, there was so much beyond our understanding.

[00:29:49] And so the natural conclusion for them was that there had to be Someone greater than them controlling what was going on exactly, and I think at times, too It played into like [00:30:00] how do they make peace with these things that are happening? I mean if you think about it a lot of we romanticize, you know Our ancestors and like you'll see people wearing the traditional folk folk dress and all of that and all but if you really think about what their lives were like it Scary.

[00:30:14] I forget somebody quoted a statistic on infant mortality, basically, like women got used to the fact that, it was a 50 50 chance if your baby made it to, their first birthday. Yeah, exactly. So think about, going through those types of challenges with a third grade education.

[00:30:33] How do you rationalize this? The only thing you can do is to really, say there must be somebody greater or somebody's greater than us controlling, the weather and the sun and the crop and the, so we have to make them happy and please them. And of course then there's, the use of the prayer, if you're stuck in the home with your mother in law for an entire winter, you'd be praying, Please, God, don't let me kill her.

[00:30:53] There's

[00:30:54] Ashley: that,

[00:30:55] Caireann: too. There's that, please don't let me choke

[00:30:58] Ashley: my husband for saying another [00:31:00]

[00:31:00] Caireann: stupid

[00:31:03] Ashley: thing. I know,

[00:31:03] Caireann: it was rough, man. Biting his toenails in bed again.

[00:31:08] Ashley: I know. She's just sitting there like, is it March yet? Can I leave? I'm gonna kill him. I'm gonna kill him. I'm gonna lose my mind in this house with these people.

[00:31:21] Caireann: Listen, we get like

[00:31:22] Ashley: that after one weekend. Oh yeah, during COVID I think everybody was like, I'm gonna lose it. Like, I don't get out of this house. This is what people went through every year. . Okay, so we, okay, some of the other bread divination stuff. So we got, if the bread was supposed to be light and flavorful, that meant you were trying to get happiness in the home.

[00:31:45] If it was flavorful, but a heavy bread, that means you were looking for kindness and wisdom in your home. However, challenges may arise if you wanted the bread to be light but it was unappetizing and flavorless. [00:32:00] It was about greed and laziness. Oh no, that's not good. If it was tough and chewy you probably didn't bake it well enough, but okay.

[00:32:06] Or maybe overworked it. Yeah, but this makes sense, right? Because that means it was a lack of logical thinking. Yeah, because maybe you just did it wrong. That's okay. You can make mistakes. Dry and hard. You probably it's probably you distractions. I love that you were distracted and you left in the oven too long.

[00:32:23] Probably. Something is off. Yeah, probably cracks on the service. That meant there was a warning of danger. And if it was burned, it talked about quarrels and spite. Makes sense. Yeah. People also really like to use honey. Honey is like a big thing all over the world, I think, though, because people realize, yeah, without bees, we'd all just, like, be dead, and that'd be the end of it.

[00:32:47] Caireann: But if you think about it, a lot of, like, the way that you're reading it, the way that she explains it, Hulk magic really follows logic. Yeah, it really follows logic, and so yeah if you burn the [00:33:00] bread, like look what happened to me the other day, without sharing too much of it.

[00:33:03] I was very distracted. And I was cooking dinner and the next thing I know the water evaporated out of it, like I could look at that and take it as a negative omen, because I was distracted. So all of the water evaporated out and I burned the food that I was cooking. So a lot of it follows this type of logic.

[00:33:22] You started to talk about honey on Christmas Eve we have a very big tradition an evening vigil that we do. And one of the things is that the mother of the home goes around to, she starts with the oldest. Which generally is the dad, but you know, she starts with the oldest male and they, they do the patriarchal thing, go for the the men and then the women. And she makes a sign of the cross on the forehead, and she wishes you the sweetness of the upcoming year to be with you. Always. Oh. Now the interesting thing was that like, depending on, who the mom was at the time doing it, you'd be like, oh. I just hope she doesn't have a heavy thumb because otherwise her honey would be drippin [00:34:00] down your bridge of your nose.

[00:34:02] And be looking at me going, couldn't you wipe it off yet? You're gross. It feels

[00:34:07] Ashley: disgusting.

[00:34:09] Caireann: I mean, coupled with the entire week, the house is humid. And you've got this honey runnin down the bridge of your nose. And I'd be... I'd be like, yeah, wipe it off. You're going to be mean this year. Wipe it off. You'd be like, I don't want to be mean this year.

[00:34:27] I love that. And then the other part of that meal with the symbolism was that you would, we made, of course we made our own bread. But we'd take, we'd all, my father would bless the bread. And then we would take a piece of the bread, everybody takes a piece of the bread. And you dip it in that honey that she used to bless.

[00:34:42] And then you wrap a piece of garlic in it, and this was the other part. My sister absolutely hated this meal. . I like garlic. She hated it. But you wrap the garlic in it, you eat it in the bread with the honey and you eat it. To symbolize that life is not always about the sweetness, but that with the sweet, with the [00:35:00] bitter comes to sweetness as well.

[00:35:01] Oh wow. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Aw, okay. You can only imagine what shirt, what midnight. What midnight math smelled like after . I know

[00:35:13] Ashley: family's had this meal, but because everyone's breath is garlic beans smells like, oh, that is so funny. , that reminds me of And I'm gonna get this wrong, so I apologize, but I went to, I've been to like Seder at my friend's house for Passover, and there's a part of the meal where we eat something bitter, and I didn't know the first time, so I like ate it, and I was like, oh, I don't like this.

[00:35:35] She's yeah, you're not supposed to eat it. I was like, oh, oops. Oh, no. Also though, there's a lot of telling of stories, right? You tell the story of Passover during the meal, and I was so hungry because my friend's aunt, she can cook, she can cook. And I was like, I really want to eat all this food, but we have to keep talking.

[00:35:54] I was so hungry, I was like, I'll eat anything at this point. [00:36:00] But yeah, it was but it's something similar to remind us of the bitterness of I think the situation of what had happened. So yeah, it's interesting. Yeah. Seder

[00:36:09] Caireann: is beautiful. I've had the privilege of being invited to the Seder and there's so much symbolism.

[00:36:14] And then again, that's the folk tradition is the same thing with the Velia that we do on Christmas Eve is the same way it has all of that tradition. And it's interesting because, if you invite a guest to the meal, it's supposed to be a great honor to the, like supposed to be a blessing to the family, but every time we'd have a guest come to the meal.

[00:36:32] My father would start from the beginning and explain the entire, everything he was doing. My mother would be like, just get

[00:36:38] Ashley: to No, I want them to have the full experience.

[00:36:50] Caireann: Like imagine being, and I mean, we kept this tradition up until a couple of years ago because my parents are elderly now, but last year I started picking up or the year [00:37:00] before, no, in 2020, I picked up the tradition and I started doing all the cooking and delivering it to people, to the homes so that we could have it.

[00:37:07] And yeah, this is, but one of the big things is that the meal has to start at sundown. In the wintertime, it gets dark at what, five? Yeah. Something like that. And so imagine being like 25 years old and having to say to your boss, You don't understand. I need to be in my father's house or he will lock the door and that will be, I will be disowned from

[00:37:30] Ashley: the family.

[00:37:31] Like, I can't come in till tomorrow. I can't close.

[00:37:35] Caireann: I can't close. I need to be there. I mean, I remember being married and having my first kid, and my husband and I were like, Branting, driving up the park, like,

[00:37:51] Ashley: to make sure we I love that. That's so funny. Oh gosh. Actually, I think in here it talks about garlic too. [00:38:00] So we talked about honey a little bit. Honey is usually like a sweetness kind of thing. And then it talks a lot about garlic. But garlic is one of those things that people love to use.

[00:38:08] Like protection from everything with garlic. The whole vampire lore with garlic. And then also there's a lot of stuff here with poppy seeds. Yes. Oh, yeah. Poppy seeds are a thing. You could, and there's a lot of love spells with poppy seeds.

[00:38:24] Caireann: Yeah. I love to work with poppy seeds. Poppy seeds really makes me feel very connected with Baba and with my culture with my ethnicity because it's used in all of the baking.

[00:38:36] And I mean, it's interesting because I learned how to make a, there's a poppy seed roll that you make with where you cook the poppy seeds in like a honey and you make a paste that goes inside of this bread. And then it cooked. Oh my God. It's so good. But I would, I the thicker, the poppy seed, the better that I just loved it like that.

[00:38:55] And then like years later, I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm [00:39:00] eating all these poppy seeds. God forbid I should have to take a drug.

[00:39:04] Ashley: For work,

[00:39:06] Caireann: I don't know how true that is nowadays, because the poppy seeds that we get in this country supposedly has been like cooked or washed or something, so it doesn't have that same effect as a true poppy seed.

[00:39:17] But poppy seeds are very big in Slavic culture, and you use them to induce You think about, excuse me, you think about the Wizard of Oz when they go through the poppy fields, what happens to them? They get sleepy. So you're going to use it in any kind of ritual or spell where you want the person to fall into a state of confusion, to be like tired, sleepy.

[00:39:40] So if you're going to do it, if you're using it in a love spell, it's to get the person to become enamored with you and fall into that state of like bliss where they're just so happy with you. So I use it in a lot of workings like when I want to, when I want to like. Somebody's being a real pain [00:40:00] in the rear end and you just you're like, okay, you need to leave me alone.

[00:40:05] So you would put the incorporate the poppy seed into the working to help them get confused and lose their way so that they wander away from you. And just, it's the step before putting them in a jar.

[00:40:18] Ashley: Got it. I love that. I feel, yeah, that's like a gentler. Like, you're like, okay, maybe leave me alone.

[00:40:24] And then they keep bothering you, you're like, okay, jar it is.

[00:40:27] Caireann: Yeah. Listen, my, my Instagram is very aesthetically pleasing. And like somebody said to me the other day, we were having a conversation. She said, you just have this sunflower energy about you. And I was like, oh, thank you. And I said, she always has to worry about the ones, the quiet ones.

[00:40:42] Ashley: Absolutely. 100%.

[00:40:45] Caireann: Don't mistake kindness for weakness because if you step over that line,

[00:40:56] Ashley: it's so true though. People who, who do that, they're like, Oh so sweet. So [00:41:00] like they could never hurt a fly. I'm like, no, those are the ones you gotta watch out for. I'm like, cause they could. I'm that same way. Don't piss me off. I'm very nice, but don't. Make me angry.

[00:41:09] Caireann: But in all fairness, it takes an awful lot and I think a lot of that's come, like I've mellowed with age, and I think I posted last year around the Feast of the Seven Sorrows of Mary.

[00:41:20] I posted what can we learn from it? And one of the, and I talked about how I had seen this girl online another practitioner, a younger practitioner who said somebody bumped into her at a club and she went home and she hexed the person. And I thought like, that's just way too much energy for me.

[00:41:35] Yeah. Honest. It's

[00:41:36] Ashley: just too hard.

[00:41:36] Caireann: Do you know how much work you have to put into a hex and is it really worth it? Like she bumped into you, you're like, if people have done stuff

[00:41:44] Ashley: like that, I know.

[00:41:46] Caireann: I have to really like, you have to really have rubbed me the wrong way for me to throw the left hand as my girlfriend says.

[00:41:56] Ashley: Oh gosh, I know, I love that. So [00:42:00] actually, oh, so there's some other stuff in here, but I'm not going to go into literally everything because I do want us to get to our story. But there's a lot of workings also with mushrooms and eggs. I really recommend this book for anybody who like, wants to put their foot into some Slavic.

[00:42:15] Magical practices, because it, there's a lot of different information in here and it's just a fun book to read. Yeah. This is Madame Pamita's Baba Yaga's book of Witchcraft, which is pretty neat. Okay, so now we're gonna go to our story. And actually this story actually also has to do with her book by accident, but I just wanted to also tell this story.

[00:42:38] We did previously talk about Baba Yaga, which is a very popular Deity in Slavic folklore and mythology and this story is actually about Baba Yaga, but I like this story I think I've said it before in this podcast.

[00:42:55] There are an estimated 3, 000 Cinderella stories throughout the [00:43:00] world folklore. I'm like the Cinderella archetype. I guess you could call it And this is one of them. But this story again is very uniquely Baba Yaga, and it's just very I like it. I like every Cinderella story I read, honestly. I have a few favorites, but this is also one of my favorites.

[00:43:18] I'm gonna tell you guys a story today of Vasilia the Beautiful and Baba Yaga and how this all happened. Okay. So we got our girl Vasilia. So she was basically miserable. She was like a slave in her own house and she had an evil stepmom. Her stepmom was mean and she had a nasty stepsister I think I said, oh her stepmom was named Galena and I forget They don't tell me in the story what her step sister's name was, but we know Galena was her stepmom So Galena was real mean to Vasilia and Vasilia, of course was Vasilia the beautiful So she was Very beautiful.

[00:43:55] Vasilia's dad was not in the picture, so Galenic [00:44:00] treated her like garbage, made her do everything in the house. She was exhausted all the time. So she actually, though, had this little doll that she used to talk to when she was sad, because... Her mom gave it to her right before she passed away. Vasilia would always talk to this doll, and one day, the doll looked at her and talked back.

[00:44:23] And Vasilia was like, Oh my god, there's a doll talking to me! She was like, oh my god, I'm so nervous. But the doll was like, don't be nervous. Because that particular day, Galena told Vasilia, like, to do all these chores. Vasilia was exhausted, and she just wanted to go to sleep. And the doll was like, listen.

[00:44:41] Just go to bed and by morning all of your chores will be done. Vasilia didn't understand because they're number one, there's a talking doll and number two, who's gonna do it? But she was so tired at this point. She didn't care. She was like, I need to go to bed I've been working all day. So she goes to bed [00:45:00] and she wakes up and the house is clean Like it is so so clean.

[00:45:05] It's cleaner than she even could make it So when she wakes up, the house is clean, there's food cooked, breakfast is on the table. And she's like, damn, this doll is amazing. So she goes to the doll, she's like, oh my god, thank you doll. And the doll's like, no problem, put me in your pocket so everyone doesn't see me.

[00:45:21] She's like, no problem. So she puts the doll in her pocket. Galena, her stepmom, comes down with her stepsisters. And... They were like who did this? And she's like, I did. And they were like, no, you didn't. And the stepsister like broke a glass and made her clean it up. Then Galena looks at her and she's like, what's going on?

[00:45:40] Did you break a glass? And she's like, oh my God, no. So she cleans up really fast. So Galena doesn't punish her for breaking up the glass. She just makes up some excuse. So then.

[00:45:51] Galena then tells her, she tells everybody in the house, Tonight we're going to do our lace work. Because that's what you do in these days. You get a candle, you do lace [00:46:00] work. So they all sat around that evening, and they started to do their lace work. And Vasilia, she hears Galena kind of whispering under her breath.

[00:46:09] She's like, pssh. She doesn't know what she's saying. Doesn't know what's going on. And it's evening time now. So then, All the lights go out in the house, all the candles are out, all the lights are out, all the lamps, and Vasilia's freaking out, she's like, Oh my god, what's going on, what's going on?

[00:46:27] Now this is back in the day, there's no electricity. And the mom is like trying to light, the stepmom's trying to light a match, it's not working, she's trying to light the lamp, it's not working. So Galena's like, oh, this must be a Vesilia because remember how you cleaned everything and cooked this morning?

[00:46:42] That was definitely magic and I'm testing you and your magic is evil. See you made all the light to the house go out And Vasilia is very confused. She's like, I don't know what you're talking about. And she's like, see, you're definitely a bad witch. And she's like, what? So then she's like, So Galena tells Vasilia, [00:47:00] in order for you to reverse your evil magic, you need to go into the woods and you need to get a torch from Baba Yaga and everybody's like, oh, yeah you

[00:47:14] Caireann: know why because that was basically sealing her death

[00:47:17] Ashley: like exactly.

[00:47:19] She figured she's not coming back for this. Thank you so much, Karen. Exactly. That's why she told her that. So she's like everyone's shocked. Vasilia is like, no thank you. Thanks. All right. But the stepmom told her, if you don't go, I'm going to kill you. But Vasilia also knew that if she went, like Cariann just said, she's probably going to die.

[00:47:39] She was like I guess, it's better for me to die out there than in here with these people, they're crazy. She started crying, she was upset, she got the ball, the, she got the doll and she put it in her pocket. She started walking into the woods and she's like, upset. The doll told her like, listen, [00:48:00] just, You're gonna stay with me.

[00:48:02] I'm gonna stay with you. I'm a doll. Don't worry. I'm not leaving you And we're gonna find Baba Yaga and just keep me in your pocket Don't let her see me because it's gonna be a problem But we're it's we're gonna get through this. So Vasilia was like, okay fine. So she walked all night in the woods. She's exhausted She's scared.

[00:48:21] It's dark All of a sudden, she hears a horse, and the horse is galloping by, and she hides, right, behind a tree. So first, she sees a white horse and a man in white armor. Then, like a couple minutes later, she sees a red horse with a man in red armor. Then a couple minutes later, she sees a black horse with a man in black armor.

[00:48:42] So she's like, that was weird, okay. So she keeps walking, though, and she finds Baba Yaga's house. Everybody, we all know what Baba Yaga's house looks like, and if you don't by now, let me tell you, it stands on chicken legs. And Baba Yaga, our girl, she flies in a mortar and pestle. This is like her thing.[00:49:00]

[00:49:00] It was probably very frightening but she steers it with the pestle. So she's like, so Vasilia sees the house, she's walking up to the house. Oh, and the fence is made of bones of children. That's great. So she hears cackling. She hears cackling, like, from up above. And here she sees Baba Yaga coming down in her mortar and pestle.

[00:49:25] And she stops right in front of her. And she's like, what do you want? And Vasilia's like, Hey, sorry to bother, but I need a torch from you, apparently. And she's like, and Baba Yaga's like, okay, I'll give you a torch, but first you have to cook me dinner because I'm starving.

[00:49:42] And Vasilia's like, okay. She's like, you need to cook me roast beef. She's like, okay.

[00:49:51] So she cooks Baba Yaga roast beef. She cooked so much food, there could have been four of them in there, and Bobby ate all the [00:50:00] food, and then she got very sleepy. Then she's sitting in a chair and she says, Tomorrow I'm gonna go out, but I'm gonna need you to do a couple things before I give you this torch.

[00:50:09] I need you to clean the courtyard, wash the floor, make dinner, prepare all my bedding and my clothes, and sweep the entire compound. And if you don't, I'm gonna eat you. And Vasilia's like, what? Like, she's like, I've gone from one bad situation to another bad situation. So she's like, oh my god, okay so she's like, okay, yeah, sure I'll do that.

[00:50:33] Bobby Agafal sleeps. And Vasilia's like, pulls out the doll, and she's like, Doll, did you hear this? And the doll's like, yeah, I heard it, and it's gonna be fine. I'm gonna handle it for you. And she's like, oh god, okay, I'm so tired. I've been walking all day, and I've been threatened with death like, four times in the past 24 hours.

[00:50:51] Like, she's like, I need to rest. Just another Tuesday. I know. The doll was like, okay, just go to [00:51:00] bed, say your prayers, and we'll figure this out. So Vasilia's like, the doll helped me out last time, so maybe this time she'll help me out again. So she goes to bed, she wakes up, and she didn't feel the doll.

[00:51:12] So she got freaked out, because she's like, oh my god, Papa Yaga found it, she's gonna kill me. But then she gets up, and she sees a broom moving by itself. And she's like, where's that broom? What's going on here? Then she looks down, and she sees the doll moving the broom, and she sees that the house is pretty much clean at this point.

[00:51:29] And she's like, oh my god, you cleaned the whole house? And she's like, yeah, I cleaned the house, girl, get up. But I do need you to help me cook. Because I'm a doll and I'm only probably like, 18 inches tall.

[00:51:39] Caireann: I'm like,

[00:51:41] Ashley: so Cecilia is like, that's fine, I can totally do that. So she starts cooking, the doll is still cleaning for her.

[00:51:47] so by the time Babyaoga gets back, everything is pristine and the food is delicious and it's ready to be eaten. So Babyaoga is super suspicious of this, and she's like, ok. How did you do it? And she's [00:52:00] like, I just did it like I just worked so hard and she's like, okay So she's like, all right tomorrow what you're gonna do is you're gonna do everything you did today But you're also gonna go to the barn Oh, and here we go talking about poppy seeds and she's like and you're gonna clean up every single poppy seed Around this barn if I see one poppy seed I'm gonna eat you and she's like, here we go with the eating me again.

[00:52:23] This is crazy So Baba Yaga went to bed once again the doll came in clutch the doll was like no problem I'll clean up the poppy seeds. You clean the house. We're gonna tag team We'll be done by the time she gets home and they were And everything was fine, but this time Baba Yaga got home and she was pissed.

[00:52:43] Because she's like, there's no way you can be doing all of this. There's absolutely no way. And Vasilia's like, no, everything's fine, don't worry about it. And she's like, yeah. She's like, yeah. But then she calmed down, Baba Yaga, and she was like, [00:53:00] okay. Because you've been doing such a good job, I'm gonna allow you to ask me any question that you want.

[00:53:07] And she's like, okay, I'm a little nervous, but, now, also remember, Baba Yaga's got all this weird stuff in her house, probably like jars of weird concoctions and things like that, and she's got a big hook nose, they call her the Iron Nose Lady in some stories, she's got a she's got a warty face, she looks like, Like think classic Snow White witch.

[00:53:31] That's what Baba Yaga is supposed to look like, right? So she's like scary looking. So you'd think you have a lot of questions like, How old are you? Like, like what's going on here? Why do you live in a house with chicken legs? But Vasilia wasn't stupid. She didn't want to insult her. So she asked her like, hey okay, yeah, I get one question.

[00:53:49] I saw these horsemen. When I was coming here, it was real weird. She described what she saw, and Baba Yaga was like, Oh, those are my horsemen. The white horseman is the bright day, the red [00:54:00] horseman is the sun, and the black horseman's the night. She's like, I command the heavens and the earth and nature. And she's like, Oh, okay, cool, I didn't know that.

[00:54:09] Vasilia's like, Neat. So now Baba Yaga was like, I'm gonna ask you a question. And Vasilia's like, Okay. And she's like, How'd you really get all those chores done? And Vasilia's like, alright, now she's having a moral dilemma, cause she's like, I could lie again. And she might eat me anyway. Or I could just tell the truth.

[00:54:29] And maybe she'll respect me for telling the truth. I don't know what to do. But in the end, she's like, all right, I'm gonna, I'm just gonna tell her the truth. So she says to her I have this doll and it was made with love. And that's how I got all the work done. And Baba Yaga was like what? And she's like, Yeah, it's just a magical doll that I have.

[00:54:53] And Baba Yaga, at first she got really mad And said that Vasilia wouldn't have any blessings in her home. [00:55:00] But then Baba Yaga, I think she was mad because she quote unquote tripped or tricked her almost, but then Bayo Yaga was like, you know what? Actually, I'm a woman on my word. If I promised you a burning torch, I'm gonna give you a burning torch.

[00:55:13] So she gave her a torch, but guess what? This torch was special. It was a burning skull. That's great. She gives her a torch with a skull on it. Frightening, but it's fine. So she took it and she said take this home Give this to your stepmom, and it's gonna provide the light that you need. And she's like, okay.

[00:55:33] So she takes it, and she runs home. So then she got home. And the skull turned on the stick, the skull, okay, this is frightening the skull turned on the stick and looked at her and said, Be good and take me inside, Baba Yaga told you to give me to your stepmom, right? And she's like, Oh yeah okay, fine, whatever, burning skull.

[00:55:55] So she goes in. Yeah, she goes in, she's very scared. She [00:56:00] goes in, she calls her stepmom down. Her stepmom can't believe she's alive. She's like, what's going on? She's like, you wanted a torch, I bought you a torch from Baba Yaga. She can't believe this is happening. The stepmom grabbed the torch from her.

[00:56:14] The skull spun its head around to look at the stepmom and spit fire at her. The stepmom caught on fire. Oh my god, this is crazy, right? Yeah, so then the stepmom's on fire, so she drops the stick, the skull, and the skull then looks at the stepsisters and spits fire at them with its eyes. And now everybody's on fire except Vasilia, so she's running out the house, she's like, this is crazy.

[00:56:43] So she runs out the house, she's the only one who is alive. But remember this is old timey times, there's no shelter, so now she's just... Has no house and no family. This is not good for a young lady. She's like, oh shit I don't know what to do So she goes into town is [00:57:00] just like hanging out because she's like I don't know what to do And there's this old woman who sees her and she's like, do you need help?

[00:57:06] And she's like actually I do need help. I'm homeless now My whole family has burned to death by a Skull torch that I got from Baba Yaga and it's like, it's a spitzfire and the lady was like that's a crazy story but whatever you seem like a nice girl so she took this old woman, she's like

[00:57:26] Caireann: okay

[00:57:27] Ashley: so this old woman she's so sweet her name was Agnes so she takes her and and the woman was like, lit by herself, and she's like, I don't even want you to, like, do anything. I just want you to hang out with me. And Vasilia's like, okay, I can hang out with you. You seem pretty nice. So they eat lunch, they hang out together.

[00:57:45] But Vasilia, and she wouldn't even let Vasilia do any chores in the house, right? Vasilia then started to get a little bored because she was used to doing chores all the time. That's, like, her life. She was like, Ah, I don't know what to do. And the old lady was like, I need [00:58:00] something to do. Agnes got Vasilia some flax.

[00:58:03] And taught her how to spin. And the doll also helped her learn how to spin the flag. So she could make clothes. So Vasilia got really good at making clothes. Like, she was so good. So the first thing she did was made a dress for Agnes. Because Agnes is her best friend. So she's like, Agnes, I made you a dress?

[00:58:20] I'm so psyched. Agnes was like, so impressed. She's like, we have to take this to the king. And she's like, we don't have to do all that. I just made this for you because I love you. And Agnes is like, I love you too. But like, chill, we have to take this to the king, because this is amazing.

[00:58:33] So Agnes convinces her and Cecilia is like, fine, we'll take it to the king, whatever. I'm so nervous. So they go together to the king's court. And Vasilia's like, I gotta stay out here. I'm I'm sweating bullets. Vasilia's sweating. Her pits are wet. She's like, I can't go see the king. I'm so nervous. Plus, Vasilia is still like, you can take the girl out of the Like the awful home, but you can't take the awful home out the girl.

[00:58:57] Like she still feels like a peasant girl She's like, [00:59:00] I can't like look at me. I'm real regular. So she's like I can't go in front of the king like that I'm so basic and Agnes is like shut up.

[00:59:06] I'm gonna handle it So she goes in there and she's talking to the king for a little while And all of a sudden Agnes comes out, and Agnes is like, Vasilia, somebody wants to talk to you! So she goes over there, and the king is so excited to meet her. The king is around her age now, and he is handsome. And she notices.

[00:59:28] And he notices that she is Vasilia. The Beautiful. And they lock eyes and they're like, I think we're in love because that's how love happens in these stories. They lock eyes. They're both in love. And that day, like 20 minutes later, he's like, Vasilia, will you marry me? And she's like, absolutely. And then they get married.

[00:59:47] And then she starts making garments for everybody, even though she's a queen now, just because she likes to. She starts making garments for everybody, and her garments were renowned, like, known throughout the kingdom. Everybody was like, wow, [01:00:00] Vasilia, she's such a good dressmaker, and like, she's so good.

[01:00:03] Such a good tailor. And then she and the king lived happily ever after, and her doll stayed with her for the rest of her life, and she took care of Agnes, and everybody was friends, and everyone was happy. The end. Yay! Yay! It all worked out! Thank god! And it all, burning skulls and all, everything was fine in the end.

[01:00:28] Nothing like a beautiful

[01:00:30] Caireann: Slavic fairytale

[01:00:31] Ashley: to wake you up to sleep. Okay, can I say, I like really enjoy fairytales, obviously, because of this podcast, but also, I read a lot of different ones. Slavic and German fairytales are so hardcore.

[01:00:51] They're so scared. What, you're scared enough. Go to sleep. People's heads are being cut off. People are accidentally eating others. Like, there's a lot [01:01:00] going on. Oh my god. I've been threatened with death four times on the way. It's just another Tuesday. It's like, Every, I love different cultures in this story.

[01:01:10] Like, and then there's like, A thousand one Arabian nights where like their folktales just like don't really end it's like it's never like happily ever after It's just like and everything was okay, but not really it's like

[01:01:28] Every culture just how they're so different their folktales. But yeah folktales and fairy tales are they were meant to be dark I don't think people realize that Disney made you think they're supposed to know they were supposed to be for adults So yeah That's why they're dark like this, because, they weren't going to be like, and everything was fine.

[01:01:44] No, they're like, and then this crazy shit happened. Everyone's like, oh, I mean,

[01:01:48] Caireann: If you think about it, that's really honestly, like the way that they kept people from getting into, into trouble. I mean, I was talking to my dad recently, the temperature had been really high.

[01:01:58] And he had [01:02:00] asked my husband to come down and do some work for him in the garden, and he was talking about no, he can't come, it's too hot, it's just that and the other, and somehow we got to talking about the Slavic spirit of the midday sun who was supposedly this woman that walked with a sickle, and she would cut you down at the knees if you were caught working at noon in the summer heat.

[01:02:20] I mean, if you think about it now, it was heat stroke. It was a heat stroke, but I mean, you're like, like how much more, like scary is it like, to say, no, don't go out there. This one, what a big sickle will cut you down by the knees if you're in the mood, like,

[01:02:31] Ashley: okay.

[01:02:31] I'm not worried about me. I'm staying home. Maybe in the

[01:02:37] Caireann: house with a beer, no worries, but that's how these stories were too. I mean, like. Where did these people live? They lived in, in, in the Slavic countries. They lived in the mountains or they, there was woods all around and, bears and wolves and things were, it was pretty common to have those things wandering across your lawn or, whatever on any given day.

[01:02:58] And like, how did you keep the [01:03:00] children out of the forest? You just told them these stories.

[01:03:06] Ashley: That's why witches are always in the woods. It's because they don't want you to get lost. Like, I have a feeling.

[01:03:12] Caireann: No, it's because they can't deal with the crazy people in the town, so they go

[01:03:15] Ashley: live in the woods.

[01:03:17] Exactly, they're like, that crazy lady in the woods. They tell the kids so the kids don't get lost, but also there is probably just an eccentric person in the woods. Probably

[01:03:25] Caireann: the one going yeah. I'm crazy. Do you want to come around here? No, you need to stay

[01:03:30] Ashley: in the town. Meanwhile, she just wants to read a book.

[01:03:33] Like she just wants to be left alone. Hanging out in the hammock, reading her book all day for a while. Exactly. She wants me to garden without everyone asking her what she's doing. Like, she just wants to relax. I'm going to leave her alone.

[01:03:46] Caireann: Stepping on my turnips.

[01:03:54] Ashley: They're like, Oh, it looks like you have some nice cucumber. She's like, leave me alone. I want to eat my cucumber. Leave me [01:04:00] alone. Oh

[01:04:03] gosh. That brings us to the end of our show. So Carianne, thank you so much for being here. And can you tell us like where people can find you on the internet? On the

[01:04:14] Caireann: internet, they can

[01:04:16] Ashley: find me. That's so

[01:04:19] Caireann: old school. You can find me on the socials. I'm on Instagram. I'm on Thread. I almost said Vine, good lord.

[01:04:26] I don't think about it. On Thread. I don't do Twitter anymore because I don't like to argue with people. But I'm also on Facebook. And I'm just now venturing into YouTube all at heart and vessem.

[01:04:41] Ashley: Okay, yeah, I never had a Twitter because I was like, I'm very confused, but I know Threads is the same thing, but I feel like Threads is very calm and fun, everyone's just like posting about their day, and it's very cute, I enjoy it.

[01:04:53] Yeah, I tried

[01:04:54] Caireann: getting that Lemon8 one for a little while, but I haven't gotten the hang of that one yet, so we might revisit it, but [01:05:00] for now.

[01:05:04] Ashley: Like I said like I do every podcast, everybody, all of Carrie Anne's links will be in the show notes if you want to go and explore it. She has a, like she said, her Instagram, very aesthetically pleasing, you'll learn a lot of little tips, very cute, I really enjoy it. I like your content.

[01:05:19] It's very sweet and nice and I learn a lot and it's fun. Of course, so everybody this has been dying with the divine if you've been listening for an hour And you don't know what you're listening to now, again, you can find us on instagram on facebook if you really enjoy the show I really appreciate if you guys leave me a rating.

[01:05:36] That can be on apple podcast spotify Usually those are the only two places five stars preferably, but just say whatever you want And if you say it with your chest and you can send us You can send me suggestions for episodes, questions, comments. I do really want to start a comment thing. So if you want to send comments, I love a comment feel anything you want to send it to dinewiththedivinepod at gmail.

[01:05:59] [01:06:00] com. And if you want to follow me, Ashley, I'm at SankofaHS, that's S A N K O F A H S. And Sankofa Healing Sanctuary on Facebook. Thank you so much. Again, carry in and , thank you for having me.

[01:06:13] Caireann: First comment's gonna be, I couldn't sleep for a week after your story. I know . I know,

[01:06:17] Ashley: I know people like, so this is what you do.

[01:06:19] You tell stories about brainstorms sometimes.

[01:06:23] Caireann: Thank you so much for having

[01:06:24] Ashley: me. It's been delightful. No problem. And thank you everybody for listening and I will see all of you next week. Have a great week. Bye.