The Wheel of the Year Obeah and Escaping Death with Emma Kathyrn

Emma

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[00:00:00] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: Hello everybody and welcome to Dine with the Divine. I'm your host, Ashley, and together we'll be exploring the magical, the mystical, and everything in between. Today we'll be chatting about the Wheel of the Year calendar and we'll be telling an Anansi story today, we have another fantastic guest. have Emma Catherine. So, Emma. is an award winning author of Witch Light. She is also a staff writer at Witchway Magazine, the House of Twigs blog, Stone, Root, and Bones blog, the Spiral Nature blog, and Gods and Radicals. She hosts Wild Witch Podcasts and has spoken at several UK Pagan events, including Magical Women's Conference in London. Emma, how are you today?

[00:00:51] emma-kathryn--her-_2_05-19-2024_152743: I am very well. The sun is shining over here, which is glorious. You have to make the most of it in the UK. [00:01:00] So yeah.

[00:01:08] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: she always says like when she came here She was like of the first thing that amazed her was like how much the sun She's like in america. The sun is always shining. I'm like, it's wow

[00:01:25] emma-kathryn--her-_2_05-19-2024_152743: Last week it was pissing it down like all week. It was a washout. So, yeah. So, ah, nice to have some sunshine, especially at the weekend,

[00:01:34] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: exactly. It's like we all need a little pick me up. So can you tell us a little bit about how your journey with Witchiness and spirituality came about.

[00:01:48] emma-kathryn--her-_2_05-19-2024_152743: Yes, I think, I was always quite lucky, I think, looking back on our childhood, because we weren't religious growing up. My paternal family come from Jamaica, [00:02:00] and so, my grandma, my dad's mother was quite religious and, a devout Christian. It didn't really filter down, so, we were quite free to explore lots of different things.

[00:02:11] And I think it was always something I was interested in, so whenever, like, I always say I was a bit of a weird kid. So while my sisters were like playing with their Barbies and stuff, I was like, had my nose in books. And it was always like, I loved fantasy stories and anything to do with magic and I think once, once I realized, That, that was actually, it could be real in, in that sense.

[00:02:33] I think it really empowered me to search. And that was like, I was about maybe 12, think as a lot of people do as they grow up, they move away from those first initial interests as, the teenage. years take over. And then it wasn't until I was around maybe 17, 18 that I came back to witchcraft and magical thinking in a more serious way.

[00:02:59] As, I don't know, [00:03:00] I guess thinking, how can I make it my life more magical? What is it I want to do? And then with the introduction of Obeah into that, that happened really quite later on. When my dad happened to come to my house and he was looking at all my witchy books, he was like, you've got all of this English magic, what about Obia?

[00:03:17] And then, so, and I was lucky enough to find someone to mentor under, so it's just been beautiful, I think.

[00:03:24] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: Now because most people don't know what opiate is, if you could just explain what that is, because a lot of people I'm sure a lot of people have never heard of it.

[00:03:33] emma-kathryn--her-_2_05-19-2024_152743: Yeah, I know it is perhaps the most obscure of the, the magical systems that have their origins in Africa. And I think where a lot of them are having a bit of a renaissance now I think Obeah is the other way around. So I, if I'm being lazy, I'll describe it as Afro Caribbean or Jamaican, because that's where my family from Jamaica, Jamaican witchcraft.

[00:03:56] is a magical and spiritual system that [00:04:00] hails, it has its roots in Africa, but I think the Caribbean is such, I don't know it's such a magical place and it has a very bloody history and I think that's where Obeah as most people might recognize it transformed into what it is today.

[00:04:16] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: Yeah, it's interesting I know so my maternal family is from Jamaica so, I think it's interesting that a lot so in the Caribbean Because I've done a little bit of like research about Obeah just because I like to know where things go like, in the Caribbean, I think, no, not, I think I know in, and we're going to talk about this later.

[00:04:40] That's why I picked this story. I picked, I have a feeling you said, OBI. I was like, oh, she's Jamaican. Yeah. So I was like, oh, we're going to tell a story. Oh, you're making it. Yeah. I love, I know. I was like, oh, this is going to be fun. So, Jamaica has the largest concentration of slaves obviously, descendants of slaves from The [00:05:00] Ashanti kingdom. So the belief is that Obeah comes a lot from like the Ashanti indigenous beliefs. For anybody listening who's like, Ooh, might still not understand if you're American, Obeah is to Jamaica, who do is to America, I don't want to sound funny, but Hoodoo is more of a mixture of a lot of different things and it people might call it. I hate to use the word, like, low magic or

[00:05:29] Yeah, folk magic is better. So, people call it, like, folk magic y. And that's, there's nothing wrong with that. I'm not trying to make comparisons one way or the other. It's not. But Obia is more of, like, a system of beliefs also. Is that right, Emma? Would I say that?

[00:05:42] emma-kathryn--her-_2_05-19-2024_152743: yeah, and I think it depends on like the individual practitioners So, I liken it to voodoo a little bit, and it's interesting because a lot of people conflate voodoo and Obeah, they're like magical cousins I often say, but I think one of the main [00:06:00] differences is that I often say that Obeah is more like, within voodoo you have, the priests, the Haungan and the Mamad, but within Obeah, I say it's more like the magic that the Bokor does, so it's yeah, I think it's, that's a good analogy to make that you made of the Udo, yeah, so it depends on individual practitioners, but I think one of the things that really draws me to it is that it doesn't have a moral compass as such, and, it's very reliant on the individual.

[00:06:26] And I think just because of the history of the Caribbean, wherever you find Jamaica Obeah within any of the islands it's very different to the next island and to the next island because of the landscape in which it grew up in and evolved in.

[00:06:41] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: 100%. And I love that you just said that because it for different, just, and I'm gonna compare it now again to du just like du it is dependent on even the geographical area you're the person is in. So if they live [00:07:00] near freshwater, it might be a little, they might have different kinds of things that they do.

[00:07:04] It's folk magic. big part of it. So if they live near fresh water, it's one thing. If they live near salt water, it might be a little different. If they live in the mountains, it might be a little

[00:07:13] emma-kathryn--her-_2_05-19-2024_152743: Yeah. A hundred percent.

[00:07:15] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: yeah, so it's yeah, it's very interesting and I think Obeah deserves its renaissance too Because

[00:07:21] emma-kathryn--her-_2_05-19-2024_152743: Me too. Me too.

[00:07:25] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: you hear like you said it's like everything else you hear and I know here in the States There's a big in the States So it's here too.

[00:07:35] It's like geographical. So in the Southern United States and anybody who listening to this podcast, if you live here in the States, you can correct me. I don't care. Please feel free. If you think I said something wrong, I will tell everybody. Don't worry. I'm not ashamed of ever being wrong.

[00:07:49] In the South, it's a lot of Hoodoo because that's where it was really prevalent and where there was more practices that from the descendants of slaves.

[00:07:57] So there's a lot of Hoodoo. Then you [00:08:00] got like Voodoo especially in Louisiana and some of the places where there was more descendants from either French peoples or French speaking countries like Benin and Togo.

[00:08:11]

[00:08:11] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: Have a lot of Afro Caribbean, La Latino and Hispanic people.

[00:08:17] So we have our Santeria, we have Lucumi you might find a group of Brazilian people. We even have some Portuguese Brazilians in New Jersey too. And we have Cana Doble and those types of

[00:08:28] Yeah. And so the magic is a little different, but a lot of the beliefs are super similar. So. And again, like Africa, especially Western Africa is so diverse. So when we think about the things that came and translated to the quote unquote, new world they're similar, but they're different. But then all these people ended up just getting together and mixing and went by and nobody knows exactly which part they're from. So.

[00:08:55] emma-kathryn--her-_2_05-19-2024_152743: Yeah.

[00:08:57] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: Yeah, so the police got all mixed with the interesting thing about Obeah, [00:09:00] like I said, because there's such a huge concentration of mostly Ashanti people there. It's very related to Ghana and Ashanti people, which if anybody's interested in reading about it, that's one way you'll learn a lot about it. I just want to say, I love, just, I always like to know like the historical background of stuff. Cause, I feel like, controversial opinion

[00:09:24] emma-kathryn--her-_2_05-19-2024_152743: Yeah.

[00:09:24] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: people

[00:09:25] emma-kathryn--her-_2_05-19-2024_152743: Yeah,

[00:09:29] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: practice. Nobody knows where it came from, but like it was an ancient practice.

[00:09:35] emma-kathryn--her-_2_05-19-2024_152743: I agree. I love like, as part of me is a nerd anyway, so I love like that research, focus of finding out things and anytime like a new interest comes along, I need to find out everything about it. But I also think like you say, it's really important, not only so we know where it's coming from and how it developed.

[00:09:53] And I think it's important to remember like histories are, the stories of our ancestors. Yeah. Rather than it being some, like, [00:10:00] cold dead thing. But I also think it's really helpful in understanding what those practices are not, as well. So, for instance, I recently had someone who asked if they could, like, incorporate angel numbers into their OBE practice.

[00:10:15] Like, not really. An obi erect practitioner, there's a kind of saying that you can use any kind of system of magic within it. But I think, I think we always have to take a pinch of salt with that to make sure we're not changing what that, the essence of it actually is,

[00:10:31] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: Yes.

[00:10:32] Or watering it down so much that it's like, again, I don't want to sound mean when I say this, but every practice is not for everybody.

[00:10:44] emma-kathryn--her-_2_05-19-2024_152743: Yes, a hundred percent.

[00:10:46] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: Yeah. So sometimes we'll water things down. Or we want to be like everybody can participate. Sometimes every practice, everyone can't participate in.

[00:10:54] I know there's practices that If I did it, it'd be my ancestors or the ancestors [00:11:00] that I'm trying to communicate would be like, girl, we don't know you. No offense. Like we never met you before.

[00:11:06] emma-kathryn--her-_2_05-19-2024_152743: Yeah, that's so important though. Yeah.

[00:11:11] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: context is super important in magical practice. So again, opiate derives from, the ancestors of enslaved people. So there's certain things that , Certain people, might want to engage in, or might want to be like, Oh, I want to talk to these people. And the ancestors may be like, sorry, but I don't really want to talk to you.

[00:11:32] emma-kathryn--her-_2_05-19-2024_152743: I think, you know what, I think that's one of the biggest learning curves for any kind of magical practice because for some reason we get into this mindset where we're like I'm going to go and converse with this spirit or that spirit. But sometimes, you know what, they don't want to know for whatever reason.

[00:11:49] And as hard as it is for our egos to take that, sometimes we have to pay that attention to that. And sometimes it's figuring out why, sometimes it's figuring out what work needs to be done [00:12:00] first. I always say that, relationships with ancestors or spirits of any kind, because I see myself as anonymous.

[00:12:06] So relation I often say that, like, the relationships we have with people in real life. So, if you only had a friend or you only ever saw anytime they wanted something. You're going to get pretty pissed off with them quite soon, so it's got to be like that. We said, so sometimes people, in fact, nearly all of the time we have to put in that work first before we even ask for anything or expect anything.

[00:12:26] Yeah.

[00:12:28] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: somebody else. I can't remember. But so obviously a very popular opinion. But that's exactly how I look at it, too. And I was , I always tell people, it doesn't mean that , you can do this. There's nothing wrong with it. But it doesn't mean that every single night. You have to go and sit in front of your altar for three hours and see these and channel and you don't have to do that if you don't have time. If you want to do that, cool, but more power to you. Yeah, but even just like to me even just talking to Meditating on or [00:13:00] even like sometimes like will happen and i'll be like, thank you guys just know that thing whatever happened this good thing that happened to me today was meant for me and I feel like my ancestors my deities put it in my path So i'll just say thank you and like it's even those little things You That keeps you connected if you can't do it every day if you can't sit. I mean you should it's good You can't offer every single day, but little offerings little things during your day. Just remembering Your people, you know is so important for keeping you connected

[00:13:38] emma-kathryn--her-_2_05-19-2024_152743: It really is. And I think when I have so every so often I'll take on some mentor mentorees some students. And, one of the requirements that I put in place for anybody who wants to apprentice in a beer under me is that actually the commitment that, I make it very clear because I think.

[00:13:56] A daily practice is important, but what that daily practice looks [00:14:00] like can vary widely. And like you say, it's not always that those big gestures and rituals. Sometimes it can be just, making sure that the altar is clean and tidy, that the offerings are refreshed and that, where we're putting them, when we've done with them, all of that stuff feeds into that as well.

[00:14:14] So, yeah, absolutely.

[00:14:17] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: Yeah. So now we've done a lot of chit chatting about that, which is really good. Nice conversation. I love talking about that. So thank you. We're going to go to our dish of the week. So our dish of the week. So since this is because this is coming out in late later summer, and we're going to be talking about book, Season Songs, where we're doing like a seasonal dish.

[00:14:40] So this dish is called Cardamom Yogurt Semi Frito,

[00:14:46] emma-kathryn--her-_2_05-19-2024_152743: Oh.

[00:14:47] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: is. Yeah, I don't know what semi frito is. I think it's like a fancy kind of sherbet. So get fancy, everybody. It's going to be cute. So this, you're going to use one pound of fresh raspberries, [00:15:00] which you can get in the summertime, which is nice.

[00:15:02] A third cup of granulated sugar, a tablespoon of fresh, Lemon juice, some salt, some, a teaspoon of ground cardamom, a cup of condensed milk, Oh, condensed milk always makes me think of my grandpa because when I was little, sorry everyone, when I was little my grandpa, so my grandpa, back to Jamaica when he got older and I went to visit him with my mom And he would sneak condensed milk into my cereal when my mom was looking. He's like don't tell your mom. She's so fussy I was like, okay And my grandpa was just adorable

[00:15:49] emma-kathryn--her-_2_05-19-2024_152743: I love that.

[00:15:50] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: Yeah, it was just a very sweet man. So then Greek yogurt vanilla extract and some bittersweet chocolate. So you're going to, so all the [00:16:00] instruction, oh and some heavy cream, all the instructions will be on the show notes for you guys to make this. It sounds really delicious.

[00:16:06] Like I said, it's like a raspberry kind of sherbet. Nice and sweet and cold. You can make it five days ahead, you keep it frozen, and then you have people over, you have your friends come over, and you guys can all enjoy it together. So this is a good summertime treat if you want a summertime treat.

[00:16:23] USB PnP Audio Device-1: Hi everybody. And thank you for listening to this show. So. I know, you're wondering what's the big deal about ratings and reviews and why is this woman always talking about them? Here's the thing, when you rate or review any podcasts that you like, it gets more people to listen to it, it gets more recognized.

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[00:16:56] USB PnP Audio Device-2: Even if you want to go on my website, which is [00:17:00] in the show notes and the link in my bio on any social media page, you will find a page where you can write a review on the website too. So it's completely up to you how you want to review. It's really easy.

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[00:17:19] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: Okay, which I didn't say in the beginning, which I should have has written, Emma does a lot of writing. She, if you didn't hear me say it in the, Introduction she writes for like 18 different blogs, which I don't know how you have all this time Jealous on top of like possibly mentoring people and I'm like, wow.

[00:17:43] Emma is writing so much. I love it

[00:17:48] emma-kathryn--her-_2_05-19-2024_152743: I know it is hard to find it in sometimes. So yeah, I don't know how I do it sometimes.

[00:17:55] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: It's like this vlog that I was like, oh my gosh, she's so busy. I love it. But she also [00:18:00] wrote this wonderful book. First of all, let's talk about the cover i'm gonna put obviously links to the book everyone just even just look at the cover. It's very pretty. I really

[00:18:08] emma-kathryn--her-_2_05-19-2024_152743: Oh, isn't it beautiful? I like it.

[00:18:17] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: She writes about each season and we're gonna talk about each season in case anybody on this podcast, anybody listening doesn't know what we're talking about, we'll talk about it. She talks about each season, she talks about first in the whole beginning of the book she explains like animism and like how to work with spirits and that kind of thing and then she goes through each season and she has. tidbits, whether it's stories, spells, folklore, it's very interesting.

[00:18:42] And if you want to know more about working with magic in the seasons, I would really recommend this book. It's really good, to at least start you off if you don't know anything about it. So we're going to go through the seasons and we're going to talk about each one and describe what goes on during them. [00:19:00] So we're going to start with at So if anybody doesn't know, on the wheel of the year calendar, some people call it the pagan calendar, some people call it the Wiccan calendar there are eight seasons. Funnily enough, with a lot of things in spiritual practices, so this, when people, this particular way we're going to describe it is based on like the Celtic tradition. But in many places around the world, the dates line up. They have similar celebrations like this. and obviously in the southern hemisphere, everything will be flipped because the seasons will be opposite. so obviously when it's winter solstice in the north, it'll be summer solstice in the South and yada yada. so we're going to start with the winter solstice talking about that. And is [00:20:00] also sometimes called a midwinter, which I didn't know. I was like, okay. And was like, that's cool. And then it's also but a lot of people know it as Yule. And also some, this is, an episode. around this time actually in December about Saturnalia.

[00:20:19] This is like what Saturnalia was originally based on, the Romans who celebrated that. So it falls on December 21st and it is the longest night of the year. So it's like the longest span of darkness we'll have all year usually people are Everyone's sad because it's exhausting be dark But one thing I know again about your book is nice is like There's so many like different nice things you can do to honor each holiday. Like i'm saying everything is sad Maybe you love yule. I [00:21:00] don't but maybe you do and emma's a way for you to enjoy it

[00:21:08] emma-kathryn--her-_2_05-19-2024_152743: Indeed. And I think what's important is that, I think that a lot of the celebrations that we have in the winter months are designed to keep people going through that dark, harsh time, and I think we forget that now in our lovely, world of electric and it can be light and warm wherever we are, but I think for our ancestors or for people living, hundreds of years ago it would have been hard.

[00:21:34] And I think that's something to look forward to is just enough to keep you going through those hard months.

[00:21:40] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: Exactly. Exactly. And this is when you get, this is why you get a lot of really good stories during the winter, because everyone was bored.

[00:21:50] emma-kathryn--her-_2_05-19-2024_152743: Yeah.

[00:21:50] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: so, everything, nothing to do, we can't go outside, everything's frozen, we're exhausted. So, there are, there's [00:22:00] a very ancient megalithic site in Ireland in Newgrange where, and then also Stonehenge is famous for this, where during winter solstice, the sun lines up just right so that the light hits a certain way.

[00:22:15] It's very cool. Most people go to Stonehenge during this time to see that happen. And then in Newgrange, it's like a big tomb. And it only lights up for like, think it's like 20 minutes or something exactly on winter solstice. And there's it lines up into. Make the tomb get completely light.

[00:22:36] I've been in there and it's very small

[00:22:39] emma-kathryn--her-_2_05-19-2024_152743: Oh, wow.

[00:22:40] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: Yeah, it's very cool. It's very small and I have claustrophobia, but I've made it I Didn't panic till the end. So everything was fine but They show you the example cuz I was there and April, but they show you the example of how not April. They show the example [00:23:00] of how the light hits. It's very cool So they think that the ancient people this thing was built in I think 3200 BCE so They think that the people knew and that's why they did it like that.

[00:23:12] Obviously our ancient ancestors were so smart. Some people think they're like, oh, they all die early. Cause they were dirty. No, they were really smart. Like they didn't have a calculator, but they figured out how on one day of the year for 20 minutes, this tomb was going to light up. Come on. That's genius. Yeah, that's wild. It's very cool. It's observed by like modern Druids a lot. It's a popular holiday but there's lots of Evergreens and Holly Ivy. You people like to put around the helm and decorate. We got Christmas trees. A lot of people, even if they don't really celebrate their religious Christmas, people love a Christmas tree.

[00:23:53] And in Roman traditions, like I said, talking about Saturnalia, there was a bunch of festivals leading up to [00:24:00] midwinter because it was just supposed to be super fun and everybody act a fool. then, next we have candle mass, or in bulk.

[00:24:09] Also, I'm gonna apologize because when it comes to the Celtic pronunciations, I'mma do my best, but you guys know sometimes it's a struggle for me. Especially because Celtic things are always spelled one way, and that's not the way you pronounce them. Yeah! I feel like the whole, like, Gaelic language was just set up to like make everyone look dumb. Like every time you pronounce it, it's wrong. I'm so sorry if you are a native Gaelic speaker. I apologize to you if I'm pronouncing your words wrong.

[00:24:42] I don't mean any disrespect. Okay. So we have Imbolc next. So this is February 1st and they call it like the First, some people say like the first light or like when things start to get slightly brighter and you are like, wow, life is coming alive again. This is [00:25:00] great. And actually, so, a lot of the time this festival is dedicated to Bridget. She is the Celtic goddess. We did an episode on Bridget too. And so if you guys know Groundhog Day, I don't know if everybody does Groundhog Day or just Americans. I'm not sure. Do you guys have Groundhog Day in the UK?

[00:25:19] emma-kathryn--her-_2_05-19-2024_152743: No. But we, I'm familiar with like, tradition, yeah.

[00:25:24] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: So we have Groundhog Day. If anybody doesn't know what Groundhog Day is, it's, there's this groundhog. Sure it's multiple. I don't know the lifespan of a groundhog, but obviously it's not the same one. They in where I live in New Jersey, we rely on this guy called Puxitani Phil, which is wild that his name is Puxitani Phil.

[00:25:44] He's in PA, he's in Pennsylvania. And Every year they wait for him to come out. It's like a cell. It's like a big thing. They have it on tv if you don't live here, they have it on tv. They wait for this groundhog to come out Now, I'm gonna get this wrong, but [00:26:00] one way, if the groundhog sees his shadow and goes back in, I think it means we're gonna have six weeks of winter, and if he doesn't, it means that spring is coming early.

[00:26:10] So we all base it on the groundhog. It's a thing. It's on national television every year. Oh my god. It's very

[00:26:19] emma-kathryn--her-_2_05-19-2024_152743: But if that's not animism, I don't know what is. You

[00:26:25] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: I'm like, wow, this is crazy. We're basing our whole weather on a groundhog. That's crazy. Actually, then I learned the tradition actually comes from the Cal, the Calic, which is an old a hag lady, like a winter hag from Celtic traditions, and she's in a bunch of different places.

[00:26:45] There's beliefs in the Calic in Scotland and Ireland and the Isle of Man. They're all slightly different, but I believe it is there. It started there because if the Calic wakes up in the morning, And she goes, gets her firewood. I believe this is how it [00:27:00] goes. Goes, gets her firewood. And lights her fire and everything's cool. It means that spring's coming early, but sometimes the day will be gray and she'll wake up late. And if she wakes up late, then she won't light the fire on time. And it means winter is going to last for six more weeks. That's what I heard. So that's where groundhog state comes from if anybody didn't know which I thought was pretty cool so in Rome traditionally in bulk was a shepherd's holiday and It's also a time when people get very excited.

[00:27:31] The, in the Dianic Wiccan tradition, this is usually the traditional time for pledges and rededications for people for the coming year. Cool. Then we have Ostara, which is people call spring equinox. Yay, spring starts. Thank God we're out of winter. Cause we're all cold and tired. We're all running out of food. Everything. Ostara it comes from the Old English Estere which [00:28:00] is a proposed Anglo Saxon goddess for whom, according to the BT, which is an ancient book equated with April. So a lot of people think it has a lot to do with Ishtar, but it really doesn't have a ton to do with Ishtar.

[00:28:16] But this is Ostara. It's the beginning midpoint between Imbolc and Beltane. So it's like, ooh, spring is starting. You're seeing some bunnies. We're seeing one or two little buds in our gardens. We're getting very excited. then we have Beltane or Beltana which is

[00:28:32] the first day of May. That has actually just passed as we're doing this podcast, but we're doing this a little early. Everybody loves this. And in Ireland, it's traditionally the first day of summer. There's lots of flowers everywhere. Everybody's very excited. Oh, my God. It's May. There's usually maypole dances.

[00:28:51] People are losing their minds. We're so excited. Our May in here in the east coast of the U. S. has been [00:29:00] very very dreary, but we're grateful because flowers are blooming and that's all that matters. Then we have summer solstice. Mid summer Litha. This is around June 21st and Summer solstice is the longest day of the year. there's lots of cool ways to Again, please read the book. There's lots of cool ways to honor that you have all sorts of nice things You can make food wise too because midsummer all everything is blooming. Everything is good. And I love Summer solstice is like one of my favorites. June 21st is usually when it's around. Then we have Llamas or Lugnasa which is heart of the first harvest that's August 1st and a lot of the time people Do this holiday by breaking by look, excuse me by baking bread because you're harvesting So we do that then we have Mabon, which is [00:30:00] always the one I say wrong for some reason even though it's the shortest one Mabon, which is the Another Harvest Festival, and it is the Autumn Equinox, which is like in September, late September 21st, 22nd. Then we have the one everybody knows, Samhain. That's every, everybody who is a, into paganism or spirituality's favorite. They're like, ooh, Samhain, the thinning of the veil. You can have a thin veil anytime you want, by the way. You don't have to wait till October 30th, just in case you didn't know guys.

[00:30:35] You can pin the veil whenever you feel like it. So they call this one of the four greater Sabbaths. So there's like the minor and the major. Like in Judaism how there's like high holidays and like real holidays. This is the time when, that in the past, people were honored the dead they had different celebrations, and I, there, really interesting, too, [00:31:00] about Samhain. Not just in Europe, if you look all over the world, I'm talking about in Asia, in South America in South America and Central America we have Dia de los Muertos in Mexico, and there's other celebrations throughout South America there's a kite festival in Guatemala, there's in Japan, there's festivals in China, and a lot of them correlate with the same date. It's very interesting. Either there are spring festivals or fall festivals for death. It's really fascinating. And when you see the spring festivals for death, it's because it's like, okay, things are growing, things are coming about again. So let's like honor what has died so we can bring forth what's new and then when you have like a Samhain Celebration or something in October.

[00:31:55] It's like well things are dying. So let's honor it now. So it's interesting It's like one or the other [00:32:00] for death holidays. Yeah, this is when people believe that the afterlife and people on the other side can be contacted most and that so That's going through all these celebrations. Do you have a favorite holiday, Emma?

[00:32:16] emma-kathryn--her-_2_05-19-2024_152743: Oh, do you know what? Every time one comes around, I would say, this is my favorite, but you know what? I like them all. I know it's a bit of a wishy washy answer, but it's true. And I think as an animist, and I think one of the reasons why I wanted to write the book was because, the wheel of the year is very much based on the British and Western European agricultural calendar, but.

[00:32:38] even for people who live in those areas, if you live away from, if you live in city centers, for example, you're quite far removed from that. And I think I wanted to get people to think about what those celebrations look like for them where they live. And so I think that's part of why I really love it.

[00:32:56] And it's really interesting what you were just saying because I'm also [00:33:00] a Vodouisan and in our house or temple, One of the major loas that we work with is Maman Brige, from the Gide, and the Gide are the loa most associated with death. And, in, in Haiti, for example, around, I think it's November the 2nd, but really throughout the whole month of November, they have a fake Gide, which is a Quite similar to the Mexican Day of the Dead where there's processions to the graveyard and people feast with, at the graveside and it's so happy.

[00:33:32] But at the same time, Maman Bridget is very much associated with Imolc as well. That's when her feast day is, for example. And so, I think for me, what's really, it makes sense that, The lower that who are associated with death are also associated with fertility because, those two ideas are quite closely linked.

[00:33:53] You don't have one without the other and all of that jazz. So yeah I love them all. I'm a bit of a [00:34:00] lush.

[00:34:04] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: That's it yeah, and you know what that's a that's another similarity throughout a lot of different traditions is that People or deities or spirits that protect The dead or are usually have to do with fertility too. Would, I think of like, Samadhi, Baron Samadhi from like a voodoo tradition, a lot.

[00:34:30] He's also protects the protects the cemetery and he's like the guardian of the cemetery. But then at the same time, he is called on for male virility. It's like, like what's that about? But it's like, it makes perfect sense. It's like you, he can help you make life and he also helps protect the dead, like dead.

[00:34:48] So it's interesting that happens a lot of times in different places also. okay. So that was our going over [00:35:00] the wheel of the year, which was a good time always is so now we're gonna to our story time has roots in Jamaica I have roots in Jamaica and it's been like forever since I told an Anansi story because I love Anansi and why not? He has so many stories. I don't know why I don't share more of them. This is one of my This is one I really like. So a couple months ago I did a class where I talked about like the mythology of death and that's how I found this story and I thought it was really interesting and we just finished talking about death. So look at that, goes right into it. So some of the background to this story is In, again, like I had talked about in the beginning the biggest population of descendants of people from the Ashanti Kingdom were in Jamaica, so a lot of the stories, folktale lore is, has to do with Anansi, who is from that region of Western Africa. So Also, a lot of the other gods and spirits up being similar. one of the characters, the character in the [00:36:00] story is Brudda Dath. So, Brudda Dath is literally said like that. And they believe it's based on the god Uwo, which is death. Literally means death in Sri and and one of the Akan languages is tree. In the Akan tradition and Akan mythology, death is like an insatiable, uncontrollable thing. It just kills stuff all the time. So this was translated across the Atlantic and it became Brother Death. And in this story, you're going to hear about Brother Death and how they act.

[00:36:34] So, the character is described as like a very old, almost skeletal looking. Man who has 37 and a half teeth. I don't know why it's 37 and a half or why it's so specific. It was 37 and a half teeth. I was like, that is so random. . I was like, my favorite [00:37:00] thing about mythology is like the most, the random facts about like a certain de of like, and this deity has a third of a pupil, and you're like, who wrote that?

[00:37:11] emma-kathryn--her-_2_05-19-2024_152743: I love it.

[00:37:39] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: He's a trickster. That's all you need to know. once upon a time, Anansi was walking through the forest and he was just walking and walking through the bush and he sees this old guy sitting in front of a home and the guy is super thin and he's Looks like he just hasn't eaten in days, but he's just chilling like he's just sitting there So when nancy goes up [00:38:00] to him, he's like hello.

[00:38:00] How you doing guy doesn't talk to him and he's like Sir, hello. How are you? The guy still does not answer so Oh by the way, I was wondering, I'm a little thirsty. Do you have any water? Can I have some of your water? The guy doesn't answer him. So he says, okay, I'm just going to go in here and get my own water. So he goes inside, gets himself some water and leaves. And he thanks the man. Thank you so much for the water. And he leaves. Cool. Next day, he's walking that same way through the bush. And he sees the old guy again. And he's still sitting there. Not talking, not doing anything. Just sitting there. So Nancy's like, Oh, hey, sir.

[00:38:48] How you doing? Once again, I am thirsty. And I was wondering if you wouldn't mind if I got some of that water again. Guy doesn't say anything to him. He's like, okay, I'm just gonna go help myself [00:39:00] like I did yesterday. So he did. He goes inside. He helps himself. And this time he sees some food sitting on the table.

[00:39:07] He's like, I'm gonna have some of this. He won't mind. This guy doesn't seem to care what I do. So he just eats some of his food. This happened again for like more days. So every day and Nancy would walk through this same area. He would see the guy, he would talk to him. The guy would not speak and he would take some of his food. Okay, fine. So after a few days and Nancy's like, Man, this guy's been really nice to me. I need to , do something for him. He's letting me eat his food, drink his water. That's cool. So he takes his eldest daughter with him down the road and he's like, Hey, sir been so nice to me, letting me eat your food and your water.

[00:39:48] I thought maybe you need a wife. So here's my daughter. don't know how much the consent was involved in the situation, but we're just gonna go with it for now. I don't know [00:40:00] if she agreed to this or not, or her dad just threw her out. Nancy was like, okay, cool. You can have my daughter.

[00:40:06] And he performed the marriage ceremony right there and they were married. Okay. Weird. So it happened. So Nancy left. And he came back the next day to get some more food and water and to see his daughter and see how everything's going. back. He's calling out for his daughter. She, he, she didn't answer. And then, old guy sitting in the same place he was. Anansi's calling his daughter, he goes in the house, he doesn't see her, he comes out, he's like, where's my daughter? What's going on? So as soon as he said that, the old man reacted. This is the first time Anansi's ever seen him turn his head or even open his eyes to look at him. says it in a deep, raspy voice, and real slow. He says, I'm to death, you idiot. Basically, that's what he says. [00:41:00] He's like, you dummy. I am death personified. And you brought your daughter here? And you just went into my house and ate all my food and drank all my water and you thought that was cool? I ate your daughter and Nancy's like what? Nancy is really upset obviously and then brother death says and you know what?

[00:41:26] I want to eat you too And Anansi's like, what? So Anansi So brother Death gets up and now he's chasing Anansi. Anansi's running. He's running as fast as he can. He has eight legs so he can run fast. But guess what? Brother Death can run even faster and Anansi is so surprised. He said this old man can run so fast. He's so scared. So, and Nancy's running running. So he gets now like [00:42:00] brother death is like on his tail. Like he's reaching for him. He's about to grab him then. And Nancy's like, I'm a spider. I'm just going to climb this tree. So he climbs a tree and realizes. That brother death can't climb that death can't climb trees. Wow. That's weird. We don't know why but it can't. So brother death is getting stuff on the ground and he's just throwing it and chucking it up the tree trying to hit and Nancy's ducking and dodging. So they all missed him. And then Nancy is like, okay what am I gonna do? So at one point brother death like had all the things in his immediate area he had thrown at him So he's like, oh, I gotta go get something else.

[00:42:37] So he goes he's looking for whatever he can sticks rocks Whatever and Nancy gets his chance and he's like, okay, I'm gonna run down So he runs down the tree and runs home now, he runs and he gets his wife Also, we told our first episode we told the Nancy story He has this wife named Aso who he puts through so much. Like, poor Aso. He puts this woman [00:43:00] through the gamut every time and she stays. God bless her. Aso is like the definition of struggle love. Like, she just sits with this man. He's so rude. So Anansi runs in the house probably like panting and slamming the door. And she's like, what is going on? He's like, death is chasing us.

[00:43:17] She's like, pardon? What He's like death is coming. We have to like, we have, she's like, metaphysically, or actually, he's like, no, real death, the dude, he's coming now. So, he literally is like, we gotta get to safety. So they run he gets all the kids. He's got four other kids. He's screaming, everybody can come out. So everyone climbs onto the ceiling because they all have spider legs sometimes. Sometimes they're human, sometimes they're not. Depends on the day. They're all on the ceiling now and they're all clinging to a beam on the ceiling and then death runs into the house because he's followed and antsy. He picks up a burlap bag he just sits [00:44:00] there them. He's like, you guys are gonna get tired. You're gonna fall. So I'm gonna sit here until you guys get tired. So here he goes sitting there and everybody's just struggling. Now they've been doing this now. Let's say it's been an hour and a half has gone by. One of the sons, he becomes tired and he's like, dad, I can't hold on. He's like, you got to hold on. He's like, I can't. He falls right into the burlap sack. Now brother death sees him and he's like, okay, got one of you. I'm going to wait until you all come down. Cause I want to eat you all at the same time. And so they're all so scared. But then one of his daughters, the same thing happens. She gets weak and she falls into the bag. Oh my God. So now they're just literally dropping. So his other son falls, his other daughter falls. Then even also his wife falls into the bag. Now Anansi is like, oh my god, my whole family is about to get eaten, this is terrible, what do I do?

[00:44:56] But, again, Anansi's a trickster and he's smart as hell, so [00:45:00] he's like, Ah you know what's crazy? tells the Mother Death, you know what's wild? bigger than the rest of them, so if I fall that sack, or like, on the ground, I'm just gonna die right there. You won't really have the pleasure of eating me alive. And brother death thinks about this and he's like, I think you're right. Like, actually, it's like, you probably will just. splat onto the floor. He's like, what I suggest is that you go get that bag of flour over there and hold it. So when I fall, I'll fall into the flour and I'll still be alive. Then you can just eat me. And brother death is like, actually, that's a really good idea. I'm going to do that. So he goes and gets the flour. And brother death is like, ha, you stupid idiot. I'm so excited. He's like, look at you. You've already just like, you've given up. Like I won the game. he puts aside like the one barrel where all the spider family's in [00:46:00] there and he gets the barrel of flour getting ready for a Nancy.

[00:46:03] Cause the Nancy's the one he really wants to eat. He really doesn't care about the rest of them. So, The barrel of flour is so heavy Nancy's like, maybe he won't even be able to carry it over. But brother death is strong as hell. Just as he was quick as hell. He was strong as hell.

[00:46:19] So he was able to bring it over. So he just sat there and waited. And then started like sifting the flour, trying to make a perfectly soft way for Nancy to land. So he could get him quick and eat him when he was looking down at the flour and sifting the flour and Nancy's like, this is it. And Nancy jumps onto his head and dunks his head in the flower.

[00:46:43] So he's temporarily blinded, right? While he's temporarily blinded and he's shaking the flower off his face, Nancy grabs the other bag with his family and he runs. So he runs onto the roof [00:47:00] and then he jumps onto other trees and he gets away and death can't find him again. So, this is a story that explains why spiders like to live on the ceiling, because they're avoiding death. But it also says that, and Nancy, Being like a deity. He is so powerful. He's such a good trickster. He's the only one who could ever escape death. nobody else was able to do it. I hope everyone liked that.

[00:47:34] emma-kathryn--her-_2_05-19-2024_152743: I loved it. I love the Anansi stories. Some of them are really dark and like, and then some of them are like a mixture. Oh, they're just great. Yeah.

[00:47:48] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: Anansi stories too, yeah, is that there's that big combination. I think a lot of trickster spirits. what I enjoy about it. It's like either like people are dying and being murdered or [00:48:00] like Somebody's like horn got eaten like it's so like weird and like I love it. Yeah, but that's our story time and then that brings us to the end of the show Emma, I've really enjoyed chit chatting with you. This has been absolutely

[00:48:20] emma-kathryn--her-_2_05-19-2024_152743: I've had the best time. Thank you so much.

[00:48:22] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: coming and then if you don't mind, let people know where they can find you on the internet, if they want to learn more about you, or they want to learn more about Obeah, since we talked about it, and everyone's like, what's that?

[00:48:33] Now everyone's interested. We're starting the resurgence today.

[00:48:37] emma-kathryn--her-_2_05-19-2024_152743: Yes, . Yes, we're people can find me at emma catherine wild witch.com. Wild witchcraft.com. I'm on Instagram and Facebook, Emma Catherine Wild Witch. Twitter as well, the same, but I use that less and less nowadays,

[00:48:54] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: A lot of people do. Yeah.

[00:48:57] emma-kathryn--her-_2_05-19-2024_152743: but I do check it out every now and then.[00:49:00]

[00:49:01] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: Twitter, I never got into Twitter, but I always see,

[00:49:05] emma-kathryn--her-_2_05-19-2024_152743: Yeah, I always use it a bit like my newspaper. So if I want a quick look at what's going on in the world and then quickly leave and dive into my own magical world.

[00:49:15] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: it's like, yeah, you don't want to get caught up in the mess, but you do want to see what everyone's

[00:49:18] emma-kathryn--her-_2_05-19-2024_152743: Yeah, I'm a nosy bitch.

[00:49:24] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: Me too, girl. I get it. I loved it. I always say like, I'm not somebody who will ever make up anything about somebody, but I need to know everyone's business just for my own knowledge.

[00:49:33] emma-kathryn--her-_2_05-19-2024_152743: Yeah.

[00:49:36] ashley--she-her-_2_05-19-2024_102743: I need to know what everyone's doing all the time. So, yay! Thank you everybody. All of Emma's links will be in the show notes and the link to her latest book will be there and all her blogs and all that kind of stuff. And everyone, thank you so much for listening another week. This is Dime of the Divine. You can find us on Threads, YouTube Facebook. Instagram and sometimes TikTok, but sometimes not. 'cause I [00:50:00] forget to update it all the time. If you have any questions, comments, concerns, feel free to DM me on any of those platforms or feel free to email me at d with the Divine pod@gmail.com. And if you wanna follow me, Ashley, I'm Sankofa Hs. That's S-A-N-K-O-F-H-S on Instagram and. all those other platforms like threads even Pinterest sometimes. And if you want to find me on Facebook, I'm Sankofa Healing Sanctuary on there. I hope you have an absolutely amazing week and I will talk to you later. Bye.

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